Immigration is Overwhelmingly Good for the United States

[Kirzad]

I just happened to be reading this article and found it rather on topic.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...ange-our-minds

[Dalaena]

Let's be frank - People need help. People deserve help. We have X amount of resources to help those people. Giving advantage to primarily one country who is milking illegal immigration without offering the correct form of help to countries which NEED IT MORE is the worst kind of racism, it's the racism you don't even know is happening.

I apologize in advance for this post being slightly off topic, but I just couldn't let this statement pass. It shows a lack of fundamental understanding of what racism is. What you describe above is not racism at all. Allocating limited funds to COUNTRIES and GOVERNMENTS (the aid you're describing) is not racist towards the countries that do not get aid or get less aid.

The sad fact is that you're going to learn about racism in the hardest and harshest way possible, and you will see it more clearly as your children get older and older because, like me, you have mixed race children. Honestly, my eyes weren't truly open until my kids got to middle school. The first time your child gets accused of racism by a white child because she called herself Asian and want to talk about her culture, you'll start to see why the phrase "I don't see color" and "You shouldn't talk about race" inherently forces people of color to pretend to be what white people deem is acceptable. When your daughter starts getting the "Me so horny" line thrown at her to crude laughter, you'll see that the white half of her will get completely ignored, and you'll be devastated by how she won't even understand that her femininity is also being attacked. Your wife will tell you, "It's okay. I went through the same thing, and I turned out okay," but that doesn't erase the hurt and confusion that your daughters will face based SOLELY on their appearance. Now, because you have a mixed race child who is half Asian and half white, she's not going to quite fit into any stereotype, so she's going to get it all. She's going to have people tell her they can't wait until she gets deported when the wall is built. She's going to speak perfect English (probably better than most of her peers) and be told that she should learn how to speak the language or go home. She will embrace her Asian side completely and not even consider herself white because she gets none of the benefits of being white anyway based solely on her appearance, so she might as well embrace the other culture. Because she is mixed, people will assume she's Hispanic, and she'll get some special treatment that will open your eyes. I really hope that none of this ever, ever, ever happens to your children, but with the rate things are going, I fear that they'll get it even earlier than mine did. And, hopefully, your eyes will be opened to the truth, and you'll begin to understand.

What I described above is just the open racism, the direct racism, the overt racism, which isn't even the worse part. When you start volunteering in their schools, you'll start to understand the systemic racism. You'll meet kids who have to worry about their next meal, and at first, you'll hold on to the pomposity of your privilege and declare that these people shouldn't have had kids in the first place if they couldn't take care of them. Then you'll meet their parents and find out that they're working 2-3 jobs and looking for more work, or you'll find out that their parents ditched and the kids are being raised by the grandparents. You'll start to realize that it doesn't matter if you think they shouldn't have been born in the first place or not, they're here, and they didn't ask to be born. It's not their fault, but it does put them about 1,000,000 steps behind the child with the brand new backpack, clothes, and shoes and the matching lunchbox. You'll try to continue to blame the child and the parents because, often, that child will have "behavior issues" that will negatively affect your child, and some people will be successful in maintaining their belief because seeing otherwise will mean they have to review their entire lives and stance on racism. But hopefully, you'll be one of the people who can step up and say, "Wow. I never saw my privilege before, but I understand it now." And you'll understand that it's not your fault. You didn't ask to be born into that, but you'll see the system for what it is and try hard to change it and to give aid where it is needed. And more importantly, you never become one of those people who declare "Racism is dead in America except against white people." You'll meet PoC who think everything is about racism and every opportunity they didn't get is about race, and sometimes, they'll be wrong, but you have to go back the thousands of incidents before where they got slighted, ignored, served last, followed, stared at, glared at and understand that it's easy to jump to that conclusion when it's happened so many times before. Your wife might start to notice that she gets treated differently when she and the kids are out with you vs. out without you.

As far as immigration goes, you will hopefully never have to discover personally that the people who take the anti-immigration stance to an extreme don't bother to differentiate between whether you're Asian, Mexican, Honduran, half-Asian, Indian, or Arabic. You're here, you don't look like they think you should, so it is their patriotic duty to tell you to get out. They don't care if you're a citizen, permanent resident, or here on a Visa. You're here, you shouldn't be, and they'll tell you so. God forbid if you speak second language. I'm personally against illegal immigration because I'm an immigrant who went through all the steps and was naturalized. Having said that, I was not fleeing a dictator or extreme poverty or a war. I don't pretend to understand how devastating those events are, but if you're willing to commit a crime to get your children to a better, safer world (which I totally understand), how can I belittle their sacrifices and hope they suffer more when they get here? I'll say it right now that if I had to flee the US knowing I'd never see my kids again but knowing that they had a chance to be alive and prosper, I would seriously consider it. If I thought they were going to die any day, I'd do anything to get them out of here even if I never saw them again. It's not the detainees who are complaining about being separated from their children or that they're children are being mistreated. It's us, Americans who know that we can do better, parents who are devastated thinking about children being kept in situations like that, people with the privilege of a good and safe life in America (and other parts of the world) who have the compassion and understanding that we can do better, and children should not be used as pawns in a war game.

And yes, I'm well aware that this is a post based on emotions and personal experiences. Aristotle already covered all the facts. I figured I didn't need to do that as well.

[Sier]

Sier, yet again you provide no data, no citations, no credible evidence, and no cogent argument to counter ANY of my points or the mountain of evidence I provided.

Your anti-immigration stances continue to be based purely in racism, fear, and ignorance. You have not countered even *ONE* of my points. Not one.

Your attempts to discredit the data amount to nothing but insecure, desperate gaslighting. The people studying this know how to gather their data. They have spent decades doing it, know how to do so accurately, and have accounted for every one of your trivial concerns. Even dishonest groups like FAIR don't question the data - they just cherry pick from it fraudulently.

Instead, you fall back on completely non-sensical stuff like this:



There you go again with your grossly uninformed and completely random obsession over Mexico. You literally aren't paying attention or reading. AGAIN: "More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to U.S."

Furthermore, our immigration laws limit the amount of legal immigrants BY COUNTRY. It is not one pool that any single country can "use up." So your weird imagined scenario of Mexicans "milking" all the slots so other countries don't get any is just completely false.

Therefore: your entire point is utterly moot and based in PURE IGNORANCE of our Immigration Laws.

More importantly:

When it comes to letting people come to the US, there is no such thing as "X amount of resources to help" these people, because they are a NET GAIN. That's the whole point here.

Give them *ALL* a path to citizenship and a set of basic rules for how to legally come here with no artificial, racist numerical limits. Return to pre-1921 policies, before the Johnson Act which as explained before was motivated by pure, unadulterated racism, eugenics, and white-supremacy.

That doesn't mean no more border, rules, visas, background checks, or vigilance. Even before 1921 about 2% of people were turned away for various reasons. Of course we continue to look out for drug and arms runners, spies, health/disease risks, etc.

Immigrants (both legal and illegal combined):

1. Take jobs that need to be done but no American wants.
2. Contribute massively as a net gain to our economy.
3. Pay taxes and contribute at a net gain above any and all services consumed.
4. Are 30 percent more likely to form new businesses than U.S.-born citizens.
5. Are three times more likely to file a patent than U.S.-born citizens.
6. Commit less crimes than U.S.-born citizens.
7. More than 40 percent of companies on the U.S. Fortune 500 list were launched by immigrants or children of immigrants. (For example: Google, Pfizer, Kraft, Intel, Yahoo, ebay, AT&T, Tesla, Paypal, Yahoo, Kohl's, Capital One, Zumba.)

That is why this issue is so preposterous. We are literally penalizing ourselves for no upside. We are denying ourselves the enormous benefits of these immigrants who could be providing huge benefits to our economy, our technological advancement, and our nation. The *ONLY* explanation for our immigration laws is a combination of racism, ignorance, and politicians playing on fear for votes. That's it.

Even if you didn't care one bit about the immigrants themselves, didn't want to help them, and didn't care about their suffering, as an American citizen it would still be utter folly to not reap the benefits these immigrants bring.

It is *proven* that there are no economic or security reasons to justify our immigration policy. It is utterly stupid and does nothing but hurt us for no benefit.

We are literally flushing wealth and technological innovation down the toilet for no gain.

1. You're asking for Data that doesn't exist. There is no reliable way to count illegal immigrants living off of the grid. There are ways to give exaggerated estimates based on whether you are for, or against illegal immigration. I already threw you some silly figures which contrast to your silly figures (Spoiler alert, both our figures are going to be wrong). It was a point of stated irony. I can make up more data or select individuals who have made up more data for me, but I'd be proving the wrong point.

2. I have asked a couple times now about your stance on an open border policy, which it at least appears you are endorsing. I'm not sure if I am overlooking your response, if so, I apologize. I'm all for legal immigration as this can be quantified, made fair (To an extent) to the countries that need help more, and those individuals can undergo a background check properly. What concerns me is an open border would apply to all countries, including those which are overtly hostile to the US, which causes a security nightmare scenario. I'd like to hear your thoughts and plans for combating this. This concerns me more than anything else.

3. I really don't care about the stats you are parroting, as they are bogus and you'll never convince me of their accuracy. The checklist you provided literally means nothing to me, as they are reliant on those stats. My real world observations wildly differ to a laughable degree. You don't have to keep Googling more. Again as a point - Crime stats don't mean anything if the police are PURPOSELY OVERLOOKING a portion of the crime in certain portions of the country.

4. We do have limited room and resources. Sorry, that's the truth. It's why certain countries which overpopulated before developing sufficient infrastructure had to resort to a "1 family - 1 Child" policy (See China). We also have a historic track record of pushing out indigenous people to make additional room, and that is back when we had far more room to provide.

5. What are your suggestions on making things fairer for the 100+ other countries which have it far worse than Mexico? Yes, I'm aware we're -both- fixated on Mexico at this point, but that's really the name of the game on all of the debating with the wall and current administration policies. Do we wish to provide free shipping along with an open border policy to these 100+ countries, including Iran, North Korea, etc..?

[Sier]

I apologize in advance for this post being slightly off topic, but I just couldn't let this statement pass. It shows a lack of fundamental understanding of what racism is. What you describe above is not racism at all. Allocating limited funds to COUNTRIES and GOVERNMENTS (the aid you're describing) is not racist towards the countries that do not get aid or get less aid.

The sad fact is that you're going to learn about racism in the hardest and harshest way possible, and you will see it more clearly as your children get older and older because, like me, you have mixed race children. Honestly, my eyes weren't truly open until my kids got to middle school. The first time your child gets accused of racism by a white child because she called herself Asian and want to talk about her culture, you'll start to see why the phrase "I don't see color" and "You shouldn't talk about race" inherently forces people of color to pretend to be what white people deem is acceptable. When your daughter starts getting the "Me so horny" line thrown at her to crude laughter, you'll see that the white half of her will get completely ignored, and you'll be devastated by how she won't even understand that her femininity is also being attacked. Your wife will tell you, "It's okay. I went through the same thing, and I turned out okay," but that doesn't erase the hurt and confusion that your daughters will face based SOLELY on their appearance. Now, because you have a mixed race child who is half Asian and half white, she's not going to quite fit into any stereotype, so she's going to get it all. She's going to have people tell her they can't wait until she gets deported when the wall is built. She's going to speak perfect English (probably better than most of her peers) and be told that she should learn how to speak the language or go home. She will embrace her Asian side completely and not even consider herself white because she gets none of the benefits of being white anyway based solely on her appearance, so she might as well embrace the other culture. Because she is mixed, people will assume she's Hispanic, and she'll get some special treatment that will open your eyes. I really hope that none of this ever, ever, ever happens to your children, but with the rate things are going, I fear that they'll get it even earlier than mine did. And, hopefully, your eyes will be opened to the truth, and you'll begin to understand.

What I described above is just the open racism, the direct racism, the overt racism, which isn't even the worse part. When you start volunteering in their schools, you'll start to understand the systemic racism. You'll meet kids who have to worry about their next meal, and at first, you'll hold on to the pomposity of your privilege and declare that these people shouldn't have had kids in the first place if they couldn't take care of them. Then you'll meet their parents and find out that they're working 2-3 jobs and looking for more work, or you'll find out that their parents ditched and the kids are being raised by the grandparents. You'll start to realize that it doesn't matter if you think they shouldn't have been born in the first place or not, they're here, and they didn't ask to be born. It's not their fault, but it does put them about 1,000,000 steps behind the child with the brand new backpack, clothes, and shoes and the matching lunchbox. You'll try to continue to blame the child and the parents because, often, that child will have "behavior issues" that will negatively affect your child, and some people will be successful in maintaining their belief because seeing otherwise will mean they have to review their entire lives and stance on racism. But hopefully, you'll be one of the people who can step up and say, "Wow. I never saw my privilege before, but I understand it now." And you'll understand that it's not your fault. You didn't ask to be born into that, but you'll see the system for what it is and try hard to change it and to give aid where it is needed. And more importantly, you never become one of those people who declare "Racism is dead in America except against white people." You'll meet PoC who think everything is about racism and every opportunity they didn't get is about race, and sometimes, they'll be wrong, but you have to go back the thousands of incidents before where they got slighted, ignored, served last, followed, stared at, glared at and understand that it's easy to jump to that conclusion when it's happened so many times before. Your wife might start to notice that she gets treated differently when she and the kids are out with you vs. out without you.

As far as immigration goes, you will hopefully never have to discover personally that the people who take the anti-immigration stance to an extreme don't bother to differentiate between whether you're Asian, Mexican, Honduran, half-Asian, Indian, or Arabic. You're here, you don't look like they think you should, so it is their patriotic duty to tell you to get out. They don't care if you're a citizen, permanent resident, or here on a Visa. You're here, you shouldn't be, and they'll tell you so. God forbid if you speak second language. I'm personally against illegal immigration because I'm an immigrant who went through all the steps and was naturalized. Having said that, I was not fleeing a dictator or extreme poverty or a war. I don't pretend to understand how devastating those events are, but if you're willing to commit a crime to get your children to a better, safer world (which I totally understand), how can I belittle their sacrifices and hope they suffer more when they get here? I'll say it right now that if I had to flee the US knowing I'd never see my kids again but knowing that they had a chance to be alive and prosper, I would seriously consider it. If I thought they were going to die any day, I'd do anything to get them out of here even if I never saw them again. It's not the detainees who are complaining about being separated from their children or that they're children are being mistreated. It's us, Americans who know that we can do better, parents who are devastated thinking about children being kept in situations like that, people with the privilege of a good and safe life in America (and other parts of the world) who have the compassion and understanding that we can do better, and children should not be used as pawns in a war game.

And yes, I'm well aware that this is a post based on emotions and personal experiences. Aristotle already covered all the facts. I figured I didn't need to do that as well.

Yea...I'm genuinely worried about this in the future if we decide to move.

My oldest is starting kindergarten this year, and kids can be cruel. It's certain to change. Fortunately, due to the above statement and us living in the Bible Belt of the country, it shouldn't be too rough. Home schooling is big here, but we decided to go with the Public School system since it's really good in our area. I'd prefer not isolating her from the potential problems, and help guide her through it if she comes home with any issues of "Bullies".

Your Hispanic comment made me chuckle, that's already happened to my wife. People will often come up to her and start talking Spanish at hospitals and stuff, and she'll go "Uh...what?"

[Dalaena]

Fortunately, due to the above statement and us living in the Bible Belt of the country, it shouldn't be too rough. Home schooling is big here, but we decided to go with the Public School system since it's really good in our area. I'd prefer not isolating her from the potential problems, and help guide her through it if she comes home with any issues of "Bullies".

I hate to disabuse you of the notion that it will be better in the Bible Belt. We are smack dab in the center of that and have been in public schools from Kindergarten to the present. It's been getting progressively worse in the last 2 years. (I think it's pretty safe to draw conclusions as to why this is so, but I'll refrain from throwing this more off topic.)

The kids can be bad, but it's the parents that are a thousand times worse especially since they should know better. Basically, once they think your kids can fend for themselves, they're fair game for comments. That seems to start around middle school.

I'm honestly very curious as to what immigrants you've met, dealt with, and known. I grew up around immigrants and, in college, discovered a lot of illegal immigrants both of my own nationality and of others since I volunteered as a Spanish translator in a very rural community. None of them that I met remotely describe the type of people you are describing, and I think that if they are as prevalent as you claim them to be, I would have met at least one. Most of the immigrants I know have paid millions in taxes (income, property, shopping, shopping, shopping), and the next generation has paid even more since they own very successful businesses including the creators of WebMD. They are also prolific entrepreneurs and invest in other start-ups. I'm not sure how our experiences with immigrants differ so immensely.

[Dalaena]

1. You're asking for Data that doesn't exist. There is no reliable way to count illegal immigrants living off of the grid. There are ways to give exaggerated estimates based on whether you are for, or against illegal immigration. I already threw you some silly figures which contrast to your silly figures (Spoiler alert, both our figures are going to be wrong). It was a point of stated irony. I can make up more data or select individuals who have made up more data for me, but I'd be proving the wrong point.

2. I have asked a couple times now about your stance on an open border policy, which it at least appears you are endorsing. I'm not sure if I am overlooking your response, if so, I apologize. I'm all for legal immigration as this can be quantified, made fair (To an extent) to the countries that need help more, and those individuals can undergo a background check properly. What concerns me is an open border would apply to all countries, including those which are overtly hostile to the US, which causes a security nightmare scenario. I'd like to hear your thoughts and plans for combating this. This concerns me more than anything else.

3. I really don't care about the stats you are parroting, as they are bogus and you'll never convince me of their accuracy. The checklist you provided literally means nothing to me, as they are reliant on those stats. My real world observations wildly differ to a laughable degree. You don't have to keep Googling more. Again as a point - Crime stats don't mean anything if the police are PURPOSELY OVERLOOKING a portion of the crime in certain portions of the country.

4. We do have limited room and resources. Sorry, that's the truth. It's why certain countries which overpopulated before developing sufficient infrastructure had to resort to a "1 family - 1 Child" policy (See China). We also have a historic track record of pushing out indigenous people to make additional room, and that is back when we had far more room to provide.

5. What are your suggestions on making things fairer for the 100+ other countries which have it far worse than Mexico? Yes, I'm aware we're -both- fixated on Mexico at this point, but that's really the name of the game on all of the debating with the wall and current administration policies. Do we wish to provide free shipping along with an open border policy to these 100+ countries, including Iran, North Korea, etc..?

The problem with you calling "your data" is that there is no data, and there isn't some magical way to just "live off the grid" in the United States. That's a completely fictional supposition. You're literally talking about something that is 100% made up. Do you actually have any experience with people who are here illegally? Horse farms employ tons of illegals and immigrants. College towns are full of illegals. They DO pay taxes, especially sales tax, and live a very specific set of rules.

If you're going to call the Cato Institute and accredited think tank data to be the same as your fantasy "living off the grid" people that you've never met or seen or have any idea how they operate, then there's no point in any discussion. You're literally making things up and supporting it with nothing but fantasy and logical fallacies. What's the point in discussing anything? It would be like trying to discuss ornithology with a toddler who is convinced Big Bird is real.

Fairness isn't something I'm interested in when it comes to immigration except that there is a fair and humane system in place. I'm interested in getting the best and the brightest from other nations because THIS is the place they want to be. Brain drain, talent drain, bring them all. I want more Nastia Lukins, Elon Musks, Michelle Kwans. I want other nations to look at us in the Olympics and say, "Wow, they went to America for the opportunities." Immigration isn't about "helping" minorities. It's about who can make it here, survive, and thrive. We don't need your help like some white knight in shining armor, and this is my country as much as it is yours. We help because we can and should.

[Sier]

The problem with you calling "your data" is that there is no data, and there isn't some magical way to just "live off the grid" in the United States. That's a completely fictional supposition. You're literally talking about something that is 100% made up. Do you actually have any experience with people who are here illegally? Horse farms employ tons of illegals and immigrants. College towns are full of illegals. They DO pay taxes, especially sales tax, and live a very specific set of rules.

If you're going to call the Cato Institute and accredited think tank data to be the same as your fantasy "living off the grid" people that you've never met or seen or have any idea how they operate, then there's no point in any discussion. You're literally making things up and supporting it with nothing but fantasy and logical fallacies. What's the point in discussing anything? It would be like trying to discuss ornithology with a toddler who is convinced Big Bird is real.

Fairness isn't something I'm interested in when it comes to immigration except that there is a fair and humane system in place. I'm interested in getting the best and the brightest from other nations because THIS is the place they want to be. Brain drain, talent drain, bring them all. I want more Nastia Lukins, Elon Musks, Michelle Kwans. I want other nations to look at us in the Olympics and say, "Wow, they went to America for the opportunities." Immigration isn't about "helping" minorities. It's about who can make it here, survive, and thrive. We don't need your help like some white knight in shining armor, and this is my country as much as it is yours. We help because we can and should.

Living off the grid is easy. I could do that right now.

Don't use credit, get paid under the table, don't pay taxes. It happens ALL THE TIME in restaurants, construction companies, and certain outsourced employment agencies in the area. I'm sure this isn't a localized phenomenon to Alabama.

I'm not sure as to why you think that concept is problematic. It's illegal, and wouldn't be an upgrade to my current lifestyle whatsoever, so I'd never bother with that.

And I agree, there is "No Reliable Data". Thanks. Just because there is not data on something does not mean it's not a thing, and not a problem. It's difficult quantifying something that doesn't lend itself to quantification.

Yes, I agree, we should help. But again, like I keep stating, that is NOT done by opening floodgates. Again - I'm interested in the following:

Quoting myself:
2. I have asked a couple times now about your stance on an open border policy, which it at least appears you are endorsing. I'm not sure if I am overlooking your response, if so, I apologize. I'm all for legal immigration as this can be quantified, made fair (To an extent) to the countries that need help more, and those individuals can undergo a background check properly. What concerns me is an open border would apply to all countries, including those which are overtly hostile to the US, which causes a security nightmare scenario. I'd like to hear your thoughts and plans for combating this. This concerns me more than anything else.

4. We do have limited room and resources. Sorry, that's the truth. It's why certain countries which overpopulated before developing sufficient infrastructure had to resort to a "1 family - 1 Child" policy (See China). We also have a historic track record of pushing out indigenous people to make additional room, and that is back when we had far more room to provide.

If an open border is truly being advocated (Still waiting on a good, clear response on that), those are the two huge points that encompass everything else I'm concerned about. You simply cannot just fling open the doors without a good plan in place for infrastructure, wage control, economic controls to ensure skilled/unskilled labor is proportionate, security, etc etc etc.... Things do not just work themselves out, nor should you expect them to.

[Dalaena]

Living off the grid is easy. I could do that right now.

Don't use credit, get paid under the table, don't pay taxes. It happens ALL THE TIME in restaurants, construction companies, and certain outsourced employment agencies in the area. I'm sure this isn't a localized phenomenon to Alabama.

I'm not sure as to why you think that concept is problematic. It's illegal, and wouldn't be an upgrade to my current lifestyle whatsoever, so I'd never bother with that. Politicians also get HUGE bang for their buck by preying off the racism and fear that some Americans have in regards to immigrants. Why do you think they've never "solved" the issue despite numerous Republican presidents and a Republican controlled Congress?

You do realize, right, that even if you get "paid under the table" as you say, you're still literally paying taxes if you buy ANYTHING in this country. How do you propose to live by not purchasing any food, any goods, renting a place to live, or are you saying there's swaths of these illegals living in an Alabama forest somewhere that have gone entirely undetected by everyone? If you are living so far off the grid that you aren't paying taxes, you also literally can't get anything from the government including free and reduced lunches at public schools. So then they'd still be paying sales taxes but unable to get any benefits from the government. That sounds like a win.

If I were in charge of the immigration system with my current knowledge (which is not NEARLY enough), I'd have a very clear path to immigration which is what we're sorely lacking right now. One of the main reasons we're lacking in this, though, is purely economical. There is a TON of money in the immigration system. People are paying lawyers and "immigration service agencies" $10-20K for the chance of being an American citizen, and often, they fail to attain it through legal means after having shelled out that money. In addition, the fact is that politicians get HUGE bang for their buck as their fuel their campaign on some American's racism and fear of illegals. Why do you think that despite multiple Republican presidents and Republican Congresses that this issue has never been "resolved"?

My system:

1) Pay $50,000 for a Green Card. This is available for anyone who can afford it. If you stay as a good and upstanding citizen for the next 5 years, you can apply for citizenship and go through the process of becoming an American citizen. If you're willing to work in an under-served area, you can reduce this to 2-3 years. (I'm flexible on years.)
2) Apply to work in America in an under-served area that needs your expertise. If you do this for 3 years, you get issued a Green Card for permanent residency. Stay in the area for another 2 years and apply for citizenship.
3) Political asylum. (Has a whole different set of rules. I don't know enough about it the nuances for each country to be able to set up this system.) This needs to be able to be accomplished when you're outside of the US.
4) 1 million slots (or whatever number that experts come up with) for a Green Card distributed by lottery. Work here for 5 years. Apply for citizenship.
5) Illegals. Let's face it. We love illegals in the US. They're employed heavily and many do pay taxes despite not having a SSN. The government knows about them and does nothing because, unlike the average regular dummy, they know that illegals are incredibly important to our economy. It takes an incredibly unintelligent person to disrupt this system. Still, it would be incredibly beneficial if we have a merit system in place for illegals to be able to gain citizenship at least for their children. The Gang of Eight attempted to deal with this.

As for China, their one-child policy had very little to do with overpopulation and much more about control of the people. China and Thailand had very similar birth trajectories. Thailand did NOT go with the one-child policy and China's policy was rescinded in 2015, but this is after they suffered a massive cultural destruction (see China's Lost Girls) that is still in effect today. It's important to note that China put the one-child policy in because one of their leaders read a couple of books and decided that China's ideal population was 700 million. The catastrophes that followed were incredibly disastrous for their country, and in the span of 37 years, only 400 million births were prevented (by their own estimations, experts think it's really only half that). The number of baby girls murdered which later resulted in girls being kidnapped and separated from their families and an overabundance of girl babies in orphanages were the result of that policy. China lost face and introduced incredibly inhumane situations to their own population. It's a pretty hideous thing to think that we would do anything similar based on the same fears.

[Aristotle]

1. You're asking for Data that doesn't exist.

The data exists. It is widely accepted and trusted. I have cited it from trusted, respected, expert sources. You are just ignoring it because it destroys your "beliefs."

I'd say argument, but you aren't making an argument. You haven't provided any logic, reason, evidence, or data. Therefore, you're just sharing a belief.

An ignorant, racist belief.

3. I really don't care about the stats you are parroting

Of course you don't, because if you cared about stats, you'd have to admit to yourself that you are being 100% racist.

So you choose ignorance. I guess that's better than just openly being racist, but the net effect is the same, and the ignorance itself is based in racism.

I am sure you don't want to self-define as a racist, and I understand that, so stop thinking and saying racist things. Simple.

4. We do have limited room and resources.

So lets get more resources. How? By letting immigrants come here and grow our economy, grow our technology base, and innovate - like they have ALWAYS DONE. You know... by founding companies like Google, Intel, Kraft, Pfizer, AT&T, etc.

Our country is mostly empty. We can dump the racist 1921 Johnson Act and everything that followed, and it costs us nothing.

And instead, we will reap the tremendous economic rewards from what these immigrants will, and always have, brought to our country.

As for the ridiculous "limited room" comment. Prepare to be annihilated:

USA GDP per capita: $59,500.
USA population density: 33.77


Siganore GDP per capita: $90,500
Singapore population density: 8,226.74

If the USA had Singapore's population density, we would have a population of 80 billion.

Extreme example? Of course. It is hyperbole. But it illustrates the point: WE HAVE ROOM.

5. What are your suggestions on making things fairer for the 100+ other countries which have it far worse than Mexico?

Why do you keep saying this extremely ridiculous and ignorant thing? This has nothing to do with anything.

I have explained this numerous times already in this thread.

The limits on the # of immigrants that can come here are PER COUNTRY.

Repeating Myself:

Going back to the pre-1921 system is inherently fair to all countries. No more racist, artificial, numerical limits on how many people can legally immigrate here per country.

Return to a set of rules anyone can follow for how to legally immigrate, and a similar set of rules for a path to citizenship. Continue all rational screening for spies, terrorists, drug/arms runners, people with dangerous communicable diseases, etc. Done.

Yes, I'm aware we're -both- fixated on Mexico at this point

No.

*YOU* are fixated on Mexico.

Dummies like Donald Trump are fixated on Mexico.

Repeating myself again:

1) "The number of Mexican immigrants living in the U.S. illegally has declined by more than 1 million since 2007."
2) "More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to U.S"

Do we wish to provide free shipping along with an open border policy to these 100+ countries, including Iran, North Korea, etc..?

Absolute nonsense babble strawman. Literally, pure nonsense.

There is absolutely no logical, rational reason to be against a return to our pre-1921 system.

Immigrants are a gigantic boon to our country in every way and they are at the CORE of what made our country great.

This shouldn't even be a debate. And if racist, fear-mongering, dishonest politicians hadn't exploited the issue from 1921 onward, it wouldn't be.

[Sier]

Yea, not gonna keep going on about the circular arguements you keep presenting, and the points you keep ignoring, and the questions you are purposefully not answering.

But I am annoyed you keep throwing down the "You're Racist" card. I want all countries to have equal opportunity to enter the United States. You don't. I'm a racist.....how? Which line of reasoning is racist again?

I don't want to see uncontrolled migration anymore than I want to see Wal-Mart/Best Buy open up their doors (Without a line and security) on Black Friday. Clearly the yelling, screaming masses who are decking each other at the front doors are paragons of humanity and should get in first, as they are closer, and more available to grab up the merchandise.

It's not about the race. It's about the money, the numbers, and the fairness.

You are advocating open borders, I am not. I believe everyone deserves a fair chance, you do not, as you do not wish to offer any controlling factor into immigration. I believe in data that is accurate in which you can quantify, you believe you should ignore the X factor, cover your ears, and pretend it doesn't exist (News Flash: It does. I participated in the system, to my regret and shame).

Saying the closest countries who have the "Capacity" to migrate here freely deserve special favor is far more of a racist argument.

No, you don't get to call people who want an actual structured immigration policy a racist. You don't get to call people who wish for equal availability and treatment between other countries racist. I mean...you can. But you're just kind of name calling and hoping your hostility makes your point for you. It really doesn't.