Secret rightwing strategy to discredit teacher strikes

[Xywalan]

Who said it had to be an expensive, fancy school? It could be a non-profit. Or a co-op. It could have any of a hundred different designs. However what you have said actually supports my argument - because we already KNOW that the average private school is "fancy", or rather it is competent, capable and worth the money invested in it as it produces quality results or the parents would not spend their money at that school.

Just to be technical, education is not a right. It is a service. I do agree however that a well educated population is better than an uneducated one - so I support education being available AND affordable for everyone. A change like this need not cost a dime more than we already pay in taxes towards education.

I don't have all of the answers - clearly NOBODY has the answers or we wouldn't be dealing with the ridiculous education system that we have now, that fails so many, including it's own teachers.

I just have some ideas and it won't be very long at all before ideas are going to start becoming reality, or the entire thing goes belly up.

And finally, there are a lot of countries that do a very good job of having successful public schools. It is not that hard or complicated. Any country "rich enough" in resources is capable of producing a reasonably good education system and US is certainly rich enough in this regard.

The problem is that the half of the political parties (1 out of 2!) is dedicated to gutting public services, to absolutely cut any and all public services to give tax cuts for their rich donors and to self-fulfill the "prophecy" that "government is the problem" and the other half of the political parties is a collection of mostly incompetent cowards who do not really fight for what they stand for.

If US cannot form a decent public education system, it is a problem with its political parties because having a good public education system is certainly a very obtainable possibility.

[Kirzad]

Education is delivered as a "service" in the sense ......


....ople opportunity to able to succeed if they put effort into it.

Look. I gave it the old college try to read this post, but about halfway through the second sentence of your second point I realized it would be pointless. You've presented a nonsensical comparison and I'm not going to disrespect the otherwise reasonable arguments that have been presented (even those that disagree with me) in this thread, or the ones that are going to follow after, by detailing everything that is wrong with what you posted.

You're an intelligent guy and I don't present this as an attack on you or your beliefs - but that post is beneath you.

[Kirzad]

And finally, there are a lot of countries that do a very good job of having successful public schools. It is not that hard or complicated. Any country "rich enough" in resources is capable of producing a reasonably good education system and US is certainly rich enough in this regard.

The problem is that the half of the political parties (1 out of 2!) is dedicated to gutting public services, to absolutely cut any and all public services to give tax cuts for their rich donors and to self-fulfill the "prophecy" that "government is the problem" and the other half of the political parties is a collection of mostly incompetent cowards who do not really fight for what they stand for.

If US cannot form a decent public education system, it is a problem with its political parties because having a good public education system is certainly a very obtainable possibility.

The problem is that government IS the problem. Both political parties are exactly the same, with the only exception being one is Tax and Spend and the other is Borrow and Spend...and Jesus.

Government run public education COULD be good. It could. I don't disagree with you on that point. But not this government. It doesn't matter which political party is in power.

[Aristotle]

Just to comment on a few of the "facts" getting used here:

1) Teacher Salaries:

Every time I have seen an "average teacher salary in X region is Y", that number is always massively skewed by administrator salaries that are in the 6 figures. The boots on the ground teachers make nowhere near that amount.

2) Cost of a 4 year education:

Someone said $6k a year to get 4 year college degree. Sure, in the 1980s. Not now.

the College Board reports that a moderate college budget for an in-state public college for the 2017–2018 academic year averaged $25,290. A moderate budget at a private college averaged $50,900.

So you're looking at $100k+ for public and $200k+ for private, 4 year degree.

[Sier]

Someone said $6k a year to get 4 year college degree. Sure, in the 1980s. Not now.

That's how much it costed me at an engineering-heavy state college (Early 2000s). Hasn't changed -that- much.

Granted, this is Alabama.

You can go to a cheaper college to get the same Education Degrees.

I believe it comes out to $10/HR currently, I was able to flip pizza's to make my way through without a loan.

I believe high school teachers require a degree in their subject area.

[Kirzad]

That's how much it costed me at an engineering-heavy state college (Early 2000s). Hasn't changed -that- much.

Granted, this is Alabama.

You can go to a cheaper college to get the same Education Degrees.

I believe it comes out to $10/HR currently, I was able to flip pizza's to make my way through without a loan.

I believe high school teachers require a degree in their subject area.

I'm pretty sure for less than $50K somebody can become a teacher. I'm not quite as much so, but still pretty sure for less than $30K somebody can become a teacher.

Ivy league might cost absolutely ridiculous sums (and I'd be willing to concede that $30K for education is excessive as well) but no. It's not going to be $200K to teach Kindergarten.

[Sier]

I'm pretty sure for less than $50K somebody can become a teacher. I'm not quite as much so, but still pretty sure for less than $30K somebody can become a teacher.

Ivy league might cost absolutely ridiculous sums (and I'd be willing to concede that $30K for education is excessive as well) but no. It's not going to be $200K to teach Kindergarten.

Right. Obviously you don't -have- to go to an out of state college where tuition will skyrocket. Especially not for a teaching degree.

No offense to teachers, but a college which provides a decent teaching degree isn't exactly a rare thing.

[Leveth]

That's how much it costed me at an engineering-heavy state college (Early 2000s). Hasn't changed -that- much.

Granted, this is Alabama.

In-state tuition at UMASS (state school) is around $13-15k this year (depending on the campus). And was less than $2k in 2009.

In-state tuition for University of Alabama in 2000 was $3.5k, and is now $8.6k.


So, no, it hasn't changed THAT much.

[Tartun]

Late to this discussion, but I have a few opinions (as usual).

1. I believe unionisation is an exercise of the first amendment rights of association and assembly. I think using collective bargaining to increase your negotiating power is intelligent and that the government should not interfere in the employee/employer relationship in any way except to ensure that no one is having their rights violated. I however feel that elected officials should not be allowed to enter collective bargaining agreements on behalf of the tax payers, thereby negating the effectiveness of public sector unions.

2. I believe good teachers are invaluable. I think they deserve to use their skills and talents to become ludicrously wealthy. I also believe that's impossible under the current educational culture. A culture that is fiercely protected by the teacher's unions and the state monopoly on affordable education. I don't know how to make teachers wealthy but I know that only the private sector can find a way to make that possible. And I'm sure it is possible... If Fortnite streamer, Ninja can make 15 k a month, the best teachers can also, but it requires freedom and technology.

[Sier]

In-state tuition at UMASS (state school) is around $13-15k this year (depending on the campus). And was less than $2k in 2009.

In-state tuition for University of Alabama in 2000 was $3.5k, and is now $8.6k.


So, no, it hasn't changed THAT much.

Sounds like it rose on par with inflation (almost).

When I was in school, the starting salary for flipping pizzas was $6.00/HR. Now it's $10. I wouldn't have any more problem working my way through school than I did before. Again, granted, this is my state school in Alabama.

I mean...you COULD raise the starting wage for teachers to be on par with engineers/scientists/etc. But then their wages would need to rise to accomodate.

The higher the education requirements for the job, the more it pays. There is no such thing as a free money bucket for one profession that won't affect others.

There are a litany of problems which come with giving one certain profession a raise such as:
Influx of too many workers (Already a problem with teachers).
Inflation of goods to accommodate the updated market salary.
Increase in Taxes to accommodate the wage.
Decrease in other government jobs to accommodate the missing funds.
etc etc etc...


This is a capitalist free market (to an extent). There's a reason why jobs pay what they do. If they don't pay out correctly, the market compensates.