Again. Police murder two more innocent black men. How do we stop this?

[Aristotle]

I have never understood the "intimidation" argument. There's really only two responses: indifference or terror, and neither is a positive result. The same discussion comes up with open carry, which I am also not an advocate of. I much prefer concealed carry, although I would not ask to ban open.

Agree on all counts. Knowing there might be people around me concealed carrying doesn't bother me. I feel like such people inherently have some discretion about it.

But a few months back in a Firehouse Subs, this strange lady came in and she was open carrying on her hip. I actually found that more nerve wracking than anything. Why would she feel the need to do that? Is she making a statement? It made me feel like she was trigger happy and just looking for an excuse to use it.

I definitely think there needs to be a country-wide review of traffic laws and enforcement. There is no need to have speed traps and deceptive speed changes, I have been victim to both. In Florida, police tended to stay in sensible areas (schools, dangerous bends, etc.) and I have received warnings for as much as 90 in a 55 (was en route to a dying grandparent, officer told me to slow down and not make it two family members). On the other hand, I've gotten three tickets in Virginia for as little as 61 in a 55 (on a four lane highway!) with no discussion or even the vaguest hope of a warning, and it has definitely soured my opinion of the traffic law enforcement.

Agreed 100%. That's how it is in Georgia and a few other southern states (not in KY though!). It sucks.

[Red Syns]

So, drifting off-topic, has there ever been an analysis of inmate/arrest/homicide ratios if purely drug-related incidents are removed from the equation?

I've been shown compelling evidence that these charges are heavily skewed against black populations, and that it is also a major drain on prison resources.

[Red Syns]

All of this!

I like the parts that don't take my words out of context, make inferences that don't exist, or call me a racist for no apparent reason.

Oh...that's all of it.

[Rosuav]

I think when you have a gun right there on your hip, it always feels like the solution. It also inherently ramps up the aggressiveness of any situation because it is right there, staring everyone in the face.

Solution: Have the gun in a tamper-evident holster and require paperwork, filled out manually in triplicate, any time the holster is opened. If the situation really demands a firearm, it's worth paying the price of explaining why you did it. If not... have you any idea how big a disincentive busy-work is? Oh, and a bullet fired requires the filling out of another form, separate from the "gun was unholstered" one.

[Aristotle]

Solution: Have the gun in a tamper-evident holster and require paperwork, filled out manually in triplicate, any time the holster is opened. If the situation really demands a firearm, it's worth paying the price of explaining why you did it. If not... have you any idea how big a disincentive busy-work is? Oh, and a bullet fired requires the filling out of another form, separate from the "gun was unholstered" one.

The holstered gun, out in the open, riding on the hip, is a huge part of what ramps up the aggressiveness/intimidation of any situation. That's a huge part of the problem imho.

[Gromgor]

Solution: Have the gun in a tamper-evident holster and require paperwork, filled out manually in triplicate, any time the holster is opened. If the situation really demands a firearm, it's worth paying the price of explaining why you did it. If not... have you any idea how big a disincentive busy-work is? Oh, and a bullet fired requires the filling out of another form, separate from the "gun was unholstered" one.

"Suspect began exhibiting an aggressive stance, fists clenched and leaning forward. Suspect then approached Officer Jones while yelling obscenities. I drew my side arm and verbally instructed the suspect to lie prone on the ground. I repeated the order two more times. Suspect refused to obey the instruction and continued aggressively approaching Officer Jones."

Copy and Paste that line into every single report you ever have to file and your drawing of a firearm is covered by "paperwork".

[Rosuav]

"Suspect began exhibiting an aggressive stance, fists clenched and leaning forward. Suspect then approached Officer Jones while yelling obscenities. I drew my side arm and verbally instructed the suspect to lie prone on the ground. I repeated the order two more times. Suspect refused to obey the instruction and continued aggressively approaching Officer Jones."

Copy and Paste that line into every single report you ever have to file and your drawing of a firearm is covered by "paperwork".

Apologies for Godwinning the discussion, but that's exactly what happened with a lot of totally-not-executions ("the prisoner tried to escape from the vehicle and was shot") done by the Nazis during the second world war. It became extremely obvious that they were fake, and thus they were not accepted as evidence of innocence of war crimes. The same would apply here - if the reports are obviously faked, they get rejected, and the officer in question loses his gun.

At some point, we have to expect/assume some intelligence from people, not treat them like machines.

[Gromgor]

Apologies for Godwinning the discussion, but that's exactly what happened with a lot of totally-not-executions ("the prisoner tried to escape from the vehicle and was shot") done by the Nazis during the second world war. It became extremely obvious that they were fake, and thus they were not accepted as evidence of innocence of war crimes. The same would apply here - if the reports are obviously faked, they get rejected, and the officer in question loses his gun.

At some point, we have to expect/assume some intelligence from people, not treat them like machines.

Not to Godwin either, but the fact that you're pointing out that Nazi's exhibited a habit that is basically taught to LEO's kind of drives home a very terrible, very real sense of dread that I have every time I hear about yet another "justified" shooting.

And even if it is found out, years have gone by that you've been allowed to get away with it before somebody complains long enough, loudly enough, perhaps even riots in the street, before somebody actually bothers to check that cares. after that you get the classic, "One bad cop doesn't mean they're all bad".

[Gromgor]

Not to create argument, or to incite anything - I just read this for the first time today and I found it very..umm..I don't even know the word. Relevant, yes, but something more.

It is posted here mostly for Red Syns, but it's for everyone. I'm being vague now because I want others to read it and decide for themselves the amount of gravity they place in the words written.

http://www.gq.com/story/tamir-rice-story

[Red Syns]

It's a well written article that highlights much of what you already said, but I like the part that starts off describing how the general population was duped into not understanding what went on behind closed doors.

The article is pretty damning of the officers, and I wonder how the trial itself might have gone if the Grand Jury had properly recommended the case go to trial. I also wonder why Grand Juries are so secretive: I can understand keeping the jurors unidentified for safety reasons, but is there any particular reason for the session itself to be hush hush?