Exemplars v1.1

[Aristotle]

The exemplar system so far has been a huge hit. We are very excited that a lot of people have found them to be a fun, engaging new type of content.

We have been gathering feedback for our first revision pass so we can make them even better. Some things we have learned both through observation and this feedback:

• Exemplars are too easy to kill. They die too fast. We intended these battles to be much longer and more epic.
  
  
• Defending an exemplar is too futile. We need to give defenders more options than just running in and getting insta-gibbed.
  
  
• There need to be more meaningful choices/options both for attackers and defenders.
  
  
• There may need to be more interesting consequences to losing your Exemplar. We want people to care about their Exemplar a lot.
  
  
• There may also be more rewards to killing someone else's Exemplar. If we do these last 2 things, we will be careful to scale it with the dominance rankings. We don't want to create a feedback loop where once you get on top, you can easily keep everyone else utterly suppressed. That's no fun.

We already have some ideas for this and we've been experimenting with them already. We will roll out more after more testing.

We are also going to have an event soon where people can earn more points to train their Exemplar more. We hope that will be a time of great excitement and strategic planning for all the religions.

One further note:

People need to better understand the PK "exception" element of the Exemplar system. This is solely to benefit the people whose exemplar was just killed. This is not for the benefit of people who did the killing. A few people insanely thought they could kill an Exemplar, and then spend the next 2 hours hunting anyone who showed up to defend. Nuh-uh. That doesn't even make sense.

[Harutigus]

I have really enjoyed this system!

However I have a problem with how I as a player feel helpless to defend my exemplar. When they were first released and Vishnu's was first attacked I sent Haru in, it's what he would do, I knew that it was an insta death as soon as I did it.

Haru isn't at a level to even help the exmplar in a fight against two or three Hegemon + players. Even if I were at a decent level it would still be an insta death, 3 on two are bad odds. With all of that said though in a role play situation members of a church that is having the exemplar attacked SHOULD be running in to certain death to defend them.

So for churches that don't have the Mega players or when your churches mega players are not logged in, we of the mid level players are either stuck getting killed or worse sitting out.

Just my thoughts on it.

[Jidoe]

As to not clutter this announcement, I opened a thread here for exemplar feedback:

http://forums.frogdice.com/showthrea...638#post101638

[Gesslar]

One further note:

People need to better understand the PK "exception" element of the Exemplar system. This is solely to benefit the people whose exemplar was just killed. This is not for the benefit of people who did the killing. A few people insanely thought they could kill an Exemplar, and then spend the next 2 hours hunting anyone who showed up to defend. Nuh-uh. That doesn't even make sense.

Oh Gord, this.

[Darion]

One further note:

People need to better understand the PK "exception" element of the Exemplar system. This is solely to benefit the people whose exemplar was just killed. This is not for the benefit of people who did the killing. A few people insanely thought they could kill an Exemplar, and then spend the next 2 hours hunting anyone who showed up to defend. Nuh-uh. That doesn't even make sense.

I have plenty of questions about the exemplar PK rules.

So, let's say that I am fighting the Erosian exemplar. A non-Erosian comes through the temple doing a pilgrimage task or whatever, sees the fighting going on, and either buffs/heals the exemplar or debuffs/fatigues/whatevers me, and runs off. It is my understanding that since this person was not a member of the church being attacked, I am now free to open-world PK them at my leisure in the future since they have assaulted me outside of the specific 'defending my own exemplar' reason that would otherwise curb PK responses after 2 hours.

Let's say the same thing happens except an Erosian shows up with a non-Erosian. The non-Erosian buffs the Erosian up and then leaves. The Erosian then attacks me. Since the non-Erosian just aided the Erosian in their attack on me (and it is still not in the defense of the non-Erosian's exemplar), am I still free to open-world PK them?

Let's say the same thing happens except now the Erosian is in the tavern and not in the temple where I am. The Erosian hears the "My health is below 25%!" announcement from the exemplar and says "Oh noes Darion is killin' mah exemplar! I have to go do what I can!" at which point three or four people in the tavern inspire/bless/hand food to/otherwise assist this person in preparing to come attack me. Am I now free to find and kill all the non-Erosians who just involved themselves via aiding someone who was coming to attack me?

[Aristotle]

So, let's say that I am fighting the Erosian exemplar. A non-Erosian comes through the temple doing a pilgrimage task or whatever, sees the fighting going on, and either buffs/heals the exemplar or debuffs/fatigues/whatevers me, and runs off. It is my understanding that since this person was not a member of the church being attacked, I am now free to open-world PK them at my leisure in the future since they have assaulted me outside of the specific 'defending my own exemplar' reason that would otherwise curb PK responses after 2 hours.

No.

Let's say the same thing happens except an Erosian shows up with a non-Erosian. The non-Erosian buffs the Erosian up and then leaves. The Erosian then attacks me. Since the non-Erosian just aided the Erosian in their attack on me (and it is still not in the defense of the non-Erosian's exemplar), am I still free to open-world PK them?

No.

Let's say the same thing happens except now the Erosian is in the tavern and not in the temple where I am. The Erosian hears the "My health is below 25%!" announcement from the exemplar and says "Oh noes Darion is killin' mah exemplar! I have to go do what I can!" at which point three or four people in the tavern inspire/bless/hand food to/otherwise assist this person in preparing to come attack me. Am I now free to find and kill all the non-Erosians who just involved themselves via aiding someone who was coming to attack me?

No.

Attackers don't get anything from this. The PK exceptions are only for defenders.

In all the above situations, if those people hunt you down later, you can PK them while defending yourself. But you can't hunt them down later.

They are completely in their rights to hunt you for 2 hours and try to kill you. You can defend yourself, but if they give up it is over. You don't get to then hunt them down in retaliation.

To summarize:

Attacking and/or killing Exemplars opens the attackers up to a lot of potential assaults/violence/PKs, and their ability to respond is limited solely to immediate self-defense. Attackers can't pursue them later, chase them down if they give up, etc.

[Darion]

No.

In all the above situations, if those people hunt you down later, you can PK them while defending yourself. But you can't hunt them down later.

They are completely in their rights to hunt you for 2 hours and try to kill you. You can defend yourself, but if they give up it is over. You don't get to then hunt them down in retaliation.

To summarize:

Attacking and/or killing Exemplars opens the attackers up to a lot of potential assaults/violence/PKs, and their ability to respond is limited solely to immediate self-defense. Attackers can't pursue them later, chase them down if they give up, etc.

My question was not in relation to the person defending their own exemplar, I know they can come for me for the 2 hours and I am limited to self-defense. My question is about people who are not members of that church who jump in to defend an exemplar or provide direct assistance to someone defending an exemplar that is -not their own-.

So if Vishnav X sees Darion fighting the EROSIAN exemplar and fatigues/withers/whatevers him and runs away, is this 'exemplar defense' even though this person is not a member of the church whose exemplar is under attack?

[Aristotle]

My question was not in relation to the person defending their own exemplar, I know they can come for me for the 2 hours and I am limited to self-defense. My question is about people who are not members of that church who jump in to defend an exemplar or provide direct assistance to someone defending an exemplar that is -not their own-.

Sorry, I thought I had covered that above. I'll try to explain better.

So if Vishnav X sees Darion fighting the EROSIAN exemplar and fatigues/withers/whatevers him and runs away, is this 'exemplar defense' even though this person is not a member of the church whose exemplar is under attack?

That is Exemplar defense. You don't get to hunt them down later.

Put simply:

Exemplar Attackers are in full defense mode after a successful or failed Exemplar attack.

They can defend themselves if attacked, but they don't get to hunt people down for defending the exemplar OR for helping to hunt them down for the next 2 hours.

Put another way:

During an Exemplar Attack and for 2 hours after, the answer to every "can I PK soandso?" question is NO. You can defend yourself when attacked. That's it.

If they attack you after 2 hours then all the normal rules apply.

BUT WHY?

1. We don't want to create an endless "Hatfield and the McCoy's" PK loop.
2. We want to encourage people to defend Exemplars.
3. We want to encourage people to hunt down attackers for the next 2 hours.
4. We want defenders (who are more often in the position of weakness) to have some sort of advantage that helps balance things and reduces feelings of futility.

[Darion]

That's clear, I was thinking that only people of the attacked church would fall under the exemplar defense portion and the non-members would come in under normal RP-related PK reasons.

[Dhelta]

That's clear, I was thinking that only people of the attacked church would fall under the exemplar defense portion and the non-members would come in under normal RP-related PK reasons.

This way, it allows a church who has two or less mobile users to try and respond to an event, assuming that they can talk an ally into being willing to join in to a group to take us to the exciting number three. The first moron to cross the line doing this wasn't exactly a brilliant strategist, though, and ended up there alone (with the obvious results).

You're allowed a cross-faith attack, so a cross-faith defense seems only logical.