Donglegate 2013

[Malacasta]

I asked politely

So, in response to the ubiquitous admonishment that Adria Richards should have politely asked the men who were making a professional conference a hostile environment with sexually inappropriate jokes to please, sirs, stop being so gross, I started a hashtag: #IAskedPolitely, for people to document the responses they've gotten to politely asking for someone to stop harassing or harming them.

The point is not to start a conversation about whether we should be polite or not.

#IAskedPolitely is not about the validity of being polite. It's about the futility.

[Daekyn]

Interestingly, no one in this thread actually mentioned that she should have turned around and asked them to stop, although it has been a theme in a lot of articles. One of the big problems with these articles is bias. Some are biased towards women and don't consider the possibility that one might be in the wrong and some are biased towards men and also don't consider the possibility that one might be wrong. A lot display reporting bias, playing up any and every situation that benefits their argument while downplaying everything that detracts from it. #IAskedPolitely clearly states their own reporting bias in their mission statement. "This isn't for talking about when it works. This is for talking about when it doesn't work."

Now, that said, it's up to a person if they want to ask someone to stop behavior they find offensive. A lot of people don't want to cause a confrontation, so they won't talk to the person themselves. In a workplace environment, they talk to HR or their boss. If someone is being rude and obnoxious in, say, a restaurant or theater, you talk to the management or someone else with the authority to have them removed. You don't take the quarrel to the internet or newspaper or local news station unless things have gone terribly wrong. Tweeting, "Hey, look at this asshole being rude to me," was like her calling in her friends and fans to cause a counter scene. That's not cool, and that's not right. If it happened in a theater, both groups would rightfully be kicked out. Even though one side started it, the other escalated it instead of taking care of it like a calm, rational person.

[khaltek]

"This isn't for talking about when it works. This is for talking about when it doesn't work."

Very much so.

People really need to start putting themselves in others' shoes regarding this.

If me and any of my friends were at a conference and were making rude innuendos to ourselves and a woman turned around and asked us to stop, I'm pretty certain we'd both be totally cooperative and massively embarassed and apologetic.

If she turned around and took our pictures and put us up in the public domain I'm pretty certain we'd be mortified at the time and furious about it afterwards.

But then not all men are like me and my friends, some are total cunts. That doesn't mean it's right to just assume we all are, though, because of the selectively biased past experiences.

If I was a woman who felt threatened and/or disgusted by the actions of two men, how would I react? I don't know.

Maybe I'd ask them to stop, but then maybe I've had bad experiences before and had to put up with sexism in basically every aspect of my life, making me reticent to do so.

Maybe I'd do what she did, thinking that "name and shame" is the best policy.

But then is making sexual innuendos inherently sexist? Is being vulgar a crime in which one should be "shopped"? I'd say no.

Maybe these two guys are total gents, but a bit disgusting when with each other. Let's be honest, we can all be vulgar and rude while being funny with each other in a friendly capacity. Is it anyone's business, if it's not directed at them?

I think the 2 guys could have been more professional, but I also don't think, on balance, that the reaction was a measured response. Who hasn't made double entendres when with their colleagues/friends?

A total fucking train wreck, basically.

[Jyn]

Interestingly, no one in this thread actually mentioned that she should have turned around and asked them to stop, although it has been a theme in a lot of articles.

Unless the comments were directed at the woman, or unless the men's comments were particularly heinous and they continued after she asked them to stop, she was the one who overreacted in this case, period. Without either of those scenarios, she experienced no abuse.

Read my post. I'm one of the people who believes he's completely correct on all points.