Modern Islam... what can you say?

[anthson]

Suni muslims do their own dirty crap, too. The entire religion is demeaning toward the female counterpart. Islam gives a man the right to command and own his woman like a pet dog. Where's the emphasis on putting her first, cherishing her, and uplifting her? Most of what I hear is just about how hard a man can beat her, when he's allowed to kill her, and how much it's her fault when another man rapes her.

How can anyone who devised such a system (sharia law) be considered intelligent? Unless you think he's a smart guy for duping countless women over the ages into a foul, degrading form of subservience.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by kestra

Do Mormons, Catholics, or Protestants on their own represent Christianity? Of course they don't. They merely represent a certain percentage. According to the article, this law was passed secretly to appease the Shi'a minority in order to gain support. It's a shitty law to be sure, however I'd say it's disingenuous to paint this as the whole face of Islam.

Considering the fact that virtually the entire Muslim world has laws that are as bad or nearly as bad as this, how it is disingenuous? This law is not some crazy exception. There are similar things throughout the Muslim world.

Also, this is an entire country. This isn't some little secluded community somewhere flying under the radar with a couple hundred people living on a commune.

I do see how you can draw an equivalence here with modern Christanity or Catholicism. Can you cite an example of a similar law passed by a Catholic or Christian theocracy?

[kestra]

I do see how you can draw an equivalence here with modern Christianity or Catholicism. Can you cite an example of a similar law passed by a Catholic or Christian theocracy?

No I can't, but I'm not an expert on such things. Perhaps someone else can site examples.
It was never my aim to draw equivalencies between Muslim and Christian law making.
Considering the fact that the majority of Muslims don't live in Afghanistan, or the Middle East for that matter, I again ask how this law represents modern Islamic views.
I would never argue that women in Muslim countries haven't been oppressed. I actually find it hard to reconcile this fact with the fact that there are millions of women in these countries who are highly distinguished in political, social, and economic circles.

How can the women be oppressed, and yet have so many rise up to these positions?

[Tartun]

Would it then be more accurate to name this thread "Modern Middle Eastern Theocracies" then?

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by kestra

Considering the fact that the majority of Muslims don't live in Afghanistan, or the Middle East for that matter, I again ask how this law represents modern Islamic views.

Because the same types of laws get passed in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries. This is not an exception. This is typical. The majority of Muslims live in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. When people say the Muslim world, that is generally what they are referring to. A few examples from those wonderful bastions of women's rights:

In Iran, a woman was sentenced to 13 years in prison and 100 lashes for "adultery", after her husband forced her into prostitution. But that was good news for her, because her original sentence was 8 years in prison after which she would be stoned to death. Their chief justice reduced the penalty to the 13 years and 100 lashes.

In Bangladesh, women are not allowed to walk in front of a Mosque because they are considered "too dirty."

In Saudi Arabia,compare two cases that came before the court:

In the first ruling, two thieves who stole two rams were sentenced to three years imprisonment and 1,000 lashes each.

The second ruling of two years imprisonment and 200 whiplashes was for a husband who beat his wife until she swallowed her tongue and died.

In Yemen, it is legal for a father to sell his daughter into marriage as early as the age of 8.

In Algeria, the right to have sex with your daughter in law is "divinely ordained in Islam."

Back to Saudi Arabia. A pregnant gang-rape victim was sentenced to 1 year in prison and 100 lashes for committing adultery.

The 23-year-old woman, who became pregnant after her ordeal, was reportedly assaulted after accepting a lift from a man.

He took her to a house to the east of the city of Jeddah where she was attacked by him and four of his friends throughout the night.

According to the Saudi Gazette, she eventually 'confessed' to having 'forced intercourse' with her attackers and was brought before a judge at the District Court in Jeddah.

He ruled she had committed adultery - despite not even being married - and handed down a year's prison sentence, which she will serve in a prison just outside the city.

She is still pregnant and will be flogged once she has had the child.

The Saudi Arabian legal system practices a strict form of medieval law. Women have very few rights and are not even allowed to drive.

They are also banned from going out in public in the company of men other than male relatives.

In Pakistan, a woman does not have the right to divorce (but a man does, of course).

Pakistan’s Minister for Law and Justice Farooq H. Naek has stated that in Islam a woman does not have the right to divorce her husband. Naek declared that he will review a recommendation of the Islamic Ideological Council in this regard.

Need I go on?

[kestra]

Point taken!
So is this how Islam became the 2nd biggest religion in the world? By beating the shit out of their women? Seems like a bit of a stretch, no? (sarcasm)

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by kestra
Point taken!
So is this how Islam became the 2nd biggest religion in the world? By beating the shit out of their women? Seems like a bit of a stretch, no? (sarcasm)

What seems like a stretch?

How many religions in world history grew large by showing respect for liberty, equality, and respect for the individual? I'd estimate it is a number somewhere very close to zero. Treating people nicely is hardly a requirement for growth. Fortunately, many of the other big religions are no longer represented in theocracies.

Modern Islam as practiced in the Muslim world just happens to be particularly brutal and repressive - especially towards women.

And I didn't even get into the Muslim practice of female "circumcision."

[Jyn]

Originally posted by kestra
Point taken!
So is this how Islam became the 2nd biggest religion in the world? By beating the shit out of their women? Seems like a bit of a stretch, no? (sarcasm)

The short version is it accomplished this because the majority of people are sheep, and birthrates of people in muslim countries (who are generally muslims) just happen to be higher than the birthrates of most other cultures/religions (This point should be common knowledge by now. The studies are out there if you really need proof).
The formula is something like:

Inability to think for oneself + bad ideas + procreation = perpetual bad ideas

In the US, Christianity is the major religion. We still have a ton of crap laws on the books that stem from this.
Technically, in Pennsylvania, the Blue Laws are still in effect. They include stipulations such as not allowing any stores to be open on Sundays. This is obviously ignored at large. Point being, lots of countries have stupid laws stemming from religion, but most don't involve stoning women to death for trivial matters.

Thankfully, the US is a relatively progressive nation when faced with issues that need change. People complain that there is still racism, sexism, and more recently discrimination against homosexuals, etc., but be honest: The US has done more for civil rights than any other country in history. It's come further in just over 200 years than the entire Middle East (and other countries with ruling Muslim influence) has in over 2000. Islam has been around for the majority of that time. I do not think it's coincidence.

[Riek]

Originally posted by Aristotle
And I didn't even get into the Muslim practice of female "circumcision."

Let alone the fact that wearing pants is a bad thing.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=8245713

[Snrrub]

To add to Aristotle's list of examples:

In Iran it's illegal to execute female virgins. This doesn't prevent any executions, though, it just means the girl gets raped by the prison guards before she's put to death.