Originally posted by Snrrub
I did not say that the documents were irrelavent, I said that the fact they did not explicitly label the United States as a democracy is irrelavent to the consideration of whether the US is a democracy.

Those two documents also don't ever use the word 'nation' in referrence to the United States. Does that mean the US is not a nation? Those two documents do not use the word 'capitalist'. Does that mean the US is not a capitalist society?

Why are you assuming that every property of the United States has to be explicitly stated in those two documents for it to be true?

I'm not assuming that at all. The difference is that being a republic and being a democracy is mutually exclusive. The Constitution does not explicitly say the U.S. is not a democracy. It does, however, explicitly say that the U.S. is a republic, and therefore not a democracy. That is what the founders set up. They specifically went out of their way to avoid democracy.

You seem to be having trouble realizing what the difference between the two is. Your definitions are too modern. They've changed. If you're going to try to understand what the Constitution actually means, then you need to take it in reference to the time period.

Democracy, in actuality, is majority rule. Plain and simple. 51%+ wins. They are historically extremely unstable and abusive of their power. A republic is the the rule of law. This topic and its nuances alone could fill another thread.

But don't take my word for it. Let's hear what some of the founding fathers have to say.

James Madison:
"Democracy is the most vile form of government... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property: and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

Alexander Hamilton:
"Real liberty is neither found in despotism or the extremes of democracy, but in moderate government."

"It is of great importance in a republic not only to guard against the oppression of its rulers, but to guard one part of society against the injustice of the other part."
(This is in reference to majority rule. Historically, the U.S. has acted more like a democracy than a republic in regard to its civil rights. Majority rule on gay marriage, for example. If we'd have been acting more like we're supposed to, as a republic, the popularity of religious marriages would have 0 effect on the ability of same-sex couples to marry. Again, a tangent that could fill a thread.)

John Adams
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."

Thomas Jefferson:
"Government in a well constituted republic requires no belief from man beyond what his reason authorizes."

These are just a few quotes to emphasize that the founding fathers did what they could to emphasize a difference between democracy and republic. Here's a site you might get more info and perspective from. Most of the quotes can be found there, too.

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/dvsr.htm

It also has a more accurate definition of democracy, in the context that the founding fathers and I am using it.


Justifiably Afraid Of ‘Democracy' — Indisputably, this nation was founded as a republic and its leaders were justifiably afraid of "democracy," lest it destroy the nation they had risked their lives to establish.

And thus it officially was for a century and a half. As recently as in a 1928 U.S. Army training manual it was described thusly:

"Democracy: A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any form of ‘direct' expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude towards laws is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice or impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy."