Total Embarassment by a US Congresswoman

[Maelgrim]

Originally posted by khaltek
Yeah, Pelic, get your facts, research and qualifications outta here. There's OPINIONS to be heard!

Ok, point made, but really. You can justify it with whatever you like, but when push comes to shove that was an embarrassment, and trying to explain it away as a cultural vernacular is nothing but an insult to the culture it references.

[Aristotle]

Sorry, but that's some extremely dubious research. That's research done after the fact to justify a systematic failure in public education. It is also part of the culture of dependency. If you tell people its ok they talk like an idiot, they might not bother learning how to speak properly. That keeps them down so you can continue to buy their votes with a welfare check.

I can totally understand how people like Kailen would be totally offended by the patronizing bullshit that just oozes from the "they can't help it, that's how they talk" academia. This "African American Vernacular" is a bunch of white-guilt bullshit.

American English is one of the most homogeneous spoken languages on the planet. It wasn't until modern, bed wetting, apologist, self-hating, white guilt academics started inventing crap like "African American Vernacular" that garbage like this even existed.

That Congresswoman is a disgrace - not only to the education system, but to our country as a whole. She completely fails to pronounce BASIC WORDS. There is no excuse for that. Furthermore, the coach's name is Urban Meyer, not Urban MeyerS. The WR's name is Percy Harvin, not Percy Harvey. If you are going to give a speech in front of the US Congress, get the names right maybe? That lady is so full of stupid if you hit her with a pinata bat you'd lose 20 IQ points.

Excusing that type of laziness and incompetence is one of the main reasons we are slipping as a country. When we accept and make excuses for that level of ignorance, we guarantee it will increase and spread.

[Jyn]

Originally posted by Pelic

I just finished teaching a 3 week section on AAVE to my freshman English classes at the University where I teach.

Is no one else completely shocked and disgusted that this crap is being taught in a university? And that kids are getting college credit (semester hours) for it?

This "vernacular" is a self-inflicted barrier to black advancement.

[Pelic]

Originally posted by Aristotle
Sorry, but that's some extremely dubious research. That's research done after the fact to justify a systematic failure in public education. I It wasn't until modern, bed wetting, apologist, self-hating, white guilt academics started inventing crap like "African American Vernacular" that garbage like this even existed.

Linguistic research into AAVE has been going on since the 1920s or earlier, starting with widely respected Germanic philologists and American dialectologists.. You can ignorantly dismiss it if you want, but the research on the dialect is solid. AAVE is rule/constraint governed just like every other dialect - whether untrained lay people recognize it or not.

I agree she's an idiot - for every reason mentioned, except for the way she talks.

[Pelic]

Originally posted by Jyn
Is no one else completely shocked and disgusted that this crap is being taught in a university? And that kids are getting college credit (semester hours) for it?

This "vernacular" is a self-inflicted barrier to black advancement.

I think (and hope) you misunderstand what I mean by teaching AAVE. No one is teaching people to talk like this. What is being taught is the linguistic analysis of a nonstandard dialect. The same thing is taught with other dialects and languages.

[Malacasta]

I recommend that everyone who is engaging with Pelic should at least read the wiki article about AAVE that he pointed us to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African...acular_English

Not everyone may agree with the contents, but at least the argument could be based on facts rather than insults.

[leira]

Though english is somewhat universal, different dialects can be quite jarring. As a Canadian, there are things in American English, Australian English, and British English that sound completely wrong to me yet are accepted as proper in the respective dialect. Things that I was taught were bad in elementary school are taught as the proper way to do things in other cultures. Is something more proper because it was what I was taught? Not necessarily. I don't have a problem acknowledging this dialect, and I don't associate it with a lack of intelligence/education.

I do think Kailen has a point though. Labeling it as "African American English" does imply certain things(ie. "this is how black people talk"). I'm opposed to labeling things by race in general. I'm sure the intent is noble, but I don't think it helps matters much.

[Aristotle]

By the way: those of you who don't follow the link, what Pelic and Malacasta are talking about right now is Ebonics. I can only imagine why they deliberately chose not to use the common term, and instead danced around it with AAVE. I think most of us are well aware of the hyper political abuse that has always been connected to Ebonics.

Read the traits of Ebonics. It is basically a "get out of jail free" excuse for all kinds of horrible grammar abuses. Things like using "aint", double negatives, leaving off the "has" when "has been" is supposed to be used, leaving off verbs, etc. Its a freakin' joke. Only in the hyper-PC world we live in could junk academics like this persist.

To whatever extent a real dialect exists, that's not to blame for her babble.

I don't deny the fact that there are dialects even in American English. But the way Ebonics is twisted and contorted is to justify and excuse laziness and/or an abysmal lack of education. It is part of the culture of dependency an entire segment of politicians depend on. They MUST keep large portions of the populace pathetic, incompetent, and totally dependent upon the government to live. That way they keep voting for the scum bags who promise to keep the checks coming. It is hardly better than a medieval noble/peasant slave setup. If people got an education, learned to speak properly, or could provide for themselves, then whadda ya know: they wouldn't need that government check any more, and those politicians would have to actually do something good for the country to earn a vote.

Most of the people to whom it is attributed speak the way they due because of poor education, laziness, and a society that makes excuses for them every step of the way. So they keep getting pushed along, promoted, graduated, etc. when they don't deserve it and didn't earn it.

She doesn't even have the names right - AT ALL.

She cannot pronounce basic, simple words. She does not comprehend where she is in a sentence as far as the flow of a natural sentence.

She leaves off the "con" of "congratulate."

That lady is a fucking idiot, and no amount of ivory tower, white-guilt, self hating research is going to change that.

Giving idiots an excuse like "oh, she's not a disgrace, she's speaking Ebonics!" does nothing but guarantee a continued decay of our society and our country.

[Aristotle]

After a little more reading, it is interesting to note that among others, Bill Cosby, Jesse Jackson, and Kweisi Mfume (former President of the NAACP) have all been critical of AAVE and attempts to teach it or consider it a language.

[Kailen]

Originally posted by Aristotle
Sorry, but that's some extremely dubious research. That's research done after the fact to justify a systematic failure in public education. It is also part of the culture of dependency. If you tell people its ok they talk like an idiot, they might not bother learning how to speak properly. That keeps them down so you can continue to buy their votes with a welfare check.

I can totally understand how people like Kailen would be totally offended by the patronizing bullshit that just oozes from the "they can't help it, that's how they talk" academia. This "African American Vernacular" is a bunch of white-guilt bullshit.

American English is one of the most homogeneous spoken languages on the planet. It wasn't until modern, bed wetting, apologist, self-hating, white guilt academics started inventing crap like "African American Vernacular" that garbage like this even existed.

That Congresswoman is a disgrace - not only to the education system, but to our country as a whole. She completely fails to pronounce BASIC WORDS. There is no excuse for that. Furthermore, the coach's name is Urban Meyer, not Urban MeyerS. The WR's name is Percy Harvin, not Percy Harvey. If you are going to give a speech in front of the US Congress, get the names right maybe? That lady is so full of stupid if you hit her with a pinata bat you'd lose 20 IQ points.

Excusing that type of laziness and incompetence is one of the main reasons we are slipping as a country. When we accept and make excuses for that level of ignorance, we guarantee it will increase and spread.

OMG you are only second to Jack Bauer in my books after this...