Jailing kids for profit

[leira]

Originally posted by Jyn
Big surprise. More women came forward. Do you immediately assume they're all telling the truth?

To some degree, I do. I believe it is EXTREMELY important to monitor agents of the state for abuses of their power. To assume everything the state does is on the up and up is an invitation for it to trample all over the rights of the public. In the absence of contradictory evidence, I tend to believe the accusations of members of the public over the word of the state.

So, yes, I believe these women for the time being. It's alot less dangerous to believe them and be proven wrong than it is to believe the police and be proven wrong.

[Rosuav]

One thing that seems to happen a LOT in today's society is the Court of Public Opinion acting as though it knows better than the official courts, even though the former is basing its judgement on one, often deliberately slanted, news report or video - while the latter has a wealth of other evidence from which to work. I'm not saying that the police are necessarily right just because they're police, but I am saying that they're not necessarily wrong just because some video makes them appear in a bad light. The courts aren't perfect either, but at least they have a lot more information.

This woman may and may not have done anything wrong. The police may and may not have acted unprofessionally. But whichever way it is, I think the big kerfuffles over small amounts of information are wrong. If you want to solve problems of corruption, unprofessional activity, abuse of power, etc, the best way to do it is to get all the facts - court transcripts, etc - and then make a calm and reasoned publication. Forums threads like this, while they may be entertaining, are not going to solve anything. Skim over this thread, and ask yourself: If I were the Chief Commissioner of Police, would this strike me as a trustworthy account of what's going on in the department?

I'd say the answer is No.

[leira]

Originally posted by Rosuav
If you want to solve problems of corruption, unprofessional activity, abuse of power, etc, the best way to do it is to get all the facts - court transcripts, etc - and then make a calm and reasoned publication.

I agree. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, that is not an option in this case. It went before a grand jury, and the proceedings of a grand jury are secret, from what I understand. Thus the facts can't be gained via court transcript, and the accused don't seem to be putting their evidence out there into the public either.

[Jyn]

Originally posted by leira
I really wish more information was available about this, so I could have an informed opinion. Was it neccessary for male officers to be present? What evidence is there that she appeared to be suicidal? How about the rest of the video evidence?

I guess what I can say is that if that was by the book, the book needs to be rewritten. It really shouldn't have went down the way it did. The procedures Vidare described seem pretty reasonable. I guess it's possible that there were too few female officers available to handle it. But leaving her naked in a cell for 6 hours? That's ridiculous.

I agree that it definitely would be nice to have more information. For all we know, though, that bit of information is that the stripping initially *did* begin with only female officers. For all we know, Hope fought like a raving lunatic and the female officers were forced to call in more help. Or, maybe it went down just like Mrs. Steffey said.

So, some people will initially take the individual's side over that of the department's. That's fine. That part of the public opinion will help to drive the investigations. Other people will initially trust in the department.

I think one of the problems in these situations is that a lot of us are jaded. Some of us have seen far too many abuses of power. Others have seen far too many people getting out of their mistakes by pinning the blame on the bigger target.

Part of my stance is that our entire judicial process is, supposedly, based on the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. There is no reason for this not to be extended to the sheriff's department in this case. Is abuse of power a possible issue? Of course, but it's no more or less common than any other crime. These officers are no more or less likely to be guilty of this crime than anyone else accused of some other crime, and so they should receive all the same protections under the law.

Originally posted by leira
In the absence of contradictory evidence, I tend to believe the accusations of members of the public over the word of the state.

Except the the absence of evidence in this case came from the citizen's side, not the state's. This case went before a grand jury and failed. This means that not only was there not enough evidence to convict the department of a crime (had it been a criminal trial), but also there wasn't enough evidence of her claims to even hold the criminal trial in the first place.

That was a jury of Hope Steffey's peers who decided this.

Originally posted by Rilthyn

No they aren't.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, because I may be misremembering, but aren't you of the shameless "fuck the police" mentality? Either way, you're either being intentionally ignorant, or legitimately ignorant. Which is it, so I know how to respond?

[Rilthyn]

Originally posted by Jyn
Forgive me if I'm wrong, because I may be misremembering, but aren't you of the shameless "fuck the police" mentality? Either way, you're either being intentionally ignorant, or legitimately ignorant. Which is it, so I know how to respond?

LOLWUT!?

[Darion]

Originally posted by Jyn
"fuck the police"

Approves.