Originally posted by Snrrub

This is a good point. It leads me to believe, however, that a prive healthcare system discourages people from starting their own business compared to a public system for precisely the reason you stated.
Incorrect. In a socialized system, I am forced to pay for health care no matter what. I have to pay it through my taxes. I have no option to redirect those funds in a direction I prefer - like funding a business.

Originally posted by Snrrub

If now you're saying that the US system is in fact primarily a public system in disguise, it would seem to contradict your initial argument that the socialized element is the reason that Canada's heathcare is worse.
No. As the US system gets more socialized, it progressively becomes worse - for the same reasons the Canadian system is worse. Both systems suck hugely, but that is an issue for a whole other thread.

We are talking about two steaming piles of shit and trying to argue about which one has grosser looking chunks in it.

My point is that in the end, a health care system where the government has all the power and all the choice is worse than a system where the citizen has the actual decision making power.

Originally posted by Snrrub
Clearly not. While strategic decisions at the top obviously have a great affect, individual cases are not decided by politicians, or beurocrats of any kind.
Actually, bureaucrats are making the decisions along every stage of the process in a socialized system. That's the whole point of it. From the very beginning when the budget is decided on, to the actual rationing of care that is necessitated at the end. If you aren't ok with this fact, then you aren't ok with socialized medicine.

As for insurance companies that deny coverage: that sucks too, but at least people then have the option to fire their insurance provider and find another. You can't fire your government, and you cannot refuse to pay them. If you refuse to pay your insurance company, they have to sue you and win in court. If you refuse to pay your "insurance" in a socialized system (taxes) you go to prison.