Bush concerned about rising gas costs

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Savaric
What are you guys referring to when you talk innovation? The thread's about rising gas prices. You think we will innovate new energy technologies that will replace what goes in your car? You need to have a look at the alternatives scientists and industry have on the table for curbing oil consumption (i.e. dependence). Hydrogen, ethanol, wind, solar -- none of those come close to grazing the surface and any proper implementation is 10 to 15 years away.

We have quite a fleet of ethanol-powered buses here in Melbourne. Some are running on sugar cane; some are running on canola oil; I think there's a third source of ethanol used too, but I can't remember what. From what I've been told, it's quite volatile and hard to handle; but then, so's LP Gas, and plenty of people use that. 10 to 15 years away? Not there. Although hydrogen, wind, and solar may well be that far off.

Only thing gonna keep gas down is to increase the supply, and that increases our dependence.

No. Increasing the supply does NOT have to mean buying from the Middle East. Australia has oilfields of its own, but the price of a barrel of crude still largely depends on happenings in the Holy Lands... err the Oily Lands. Increasing supply should mean sourcing oil from other places; which may mean artificial sources. Synthetic oils and fuels are not impossible; research dollars spent there could return results in less than 10 years, I reckon.

(Caveat: I'm nobody. I don't have any sort of expertise or inside information. Add grains of salt liberally.)

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Savaric
What are you guys referring to when you talk innovation? The thread's about rising gas prices. You think we will innovate new energy technologies that will replace what goes in your car?

Um.... yes. The Ford Model T is was the first "affordable" car, and is basically considered the beginning of the era of the automobile (in 1927). Obviously, it was a few more decades before cars were widely used. So the car as we know it has only been a major factor in our lives for 40 or 50 years. Do you really think in another 50-100 years we will still be using the same old internal combustion engine gasoline powered cars?

Also, lets not forget that in the 1970s cars on the road were averaging 13 miles to the gallon. Then in 1975 Congress established the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standard. By 1987, cars on the road were averaging 26.2 mpg (doubling fuel efficiency). That was accomplished through technology and innovation. With the right political will, we can certainly reproduce those effects. I have heard news journalist Chris Matthews report a story many times from when he was working in Congress and met with lobbyists from the auto industry. It is a dirty little secret that if the CAFE standard was doubled, the manufacturers could meet it within a year.

Originally posted by Savaric
Hydrogen, ethanol, wind, solar -- none of those come close to grazing the surface and any proper implementation is 10 to 15 years away. They don't even come close to meeting our demands because right now they have very low, or no, net energy gain.

Excuse my 1980s slang, but "no duh." That's because we don't make it a priority to innovate. Instead we beat our heads against the wall trying to convince people to separate their garbage into 10 different bins, we try to cajole them into carpooling, or we waste money on campaigns to drive less. Oh, and then there are the stupid world wide concerts that accomplish nothing.

All of that time and energy should be directed towards finding solutions that let us behave how we want to behave, but do so in a more energy efficient manner without impinging upon our lifestyle.

My point is that we aren't going to solve any of these problems by expecting people to make their lives miserable, less enjoyable, harder, or less fun. But we CAN accomplish some of these goals with good ideas that make people's lives better, or through purely technological improvements.

One of my personal ideas is a nationwide effort to encourage and increase the amount of telecommuting. Millions of people drive to work every day, many of them an hour or more each way, and don't need to. Tax breaks for companies that have a certain % of workers who telecommute would be a great step.

Originally posted by Savaric

Only thing gonna keep gas down is to increase the supply, and that increases our dependence. The most powerful nation in the world is utterly dependent on the most unstable, volatile region on the planet. That must make you uneasy in some way, shape or form?

Don't forget that innovation is the enemy of oil companies. They don't want us off the oil standard and that's precisely why we're in Iraq. It's a failed attempt to bring stability (make friends with) to an oil-rich country.

Of course that concerns me, but that has nothing to do with my point that we will solve these problems through technology, not sacrifice. Do we just throw up our hands and give up on the idea of developing new technologies because the oil companies won't like it? That is defeatist and pointless.

And we can very easily increase our supply if we really want to. We can drill in ANWR, and we can drill in the Gulf of Mexico if millionaires like Ted Kennedy can stop crying about the fact that they MIGHT see an oil rig on a super clear day from the back porch of their mansion.

Conservation is nice. Waste is bad. But in the end, major world problems will not be solved by asking people to make personal sacrifices. They will always see "that guy over there" (whether it is their neighbor or China) not sacrificing and feel like they are getting screwed. Or they will just be too tired to jump through extra hoops to comply when they are worn out from work, kids, etc. Making life more difficult or less enjoyable is not a hallmark of human progress. We endeavor to make life easier, more enjoyable, and to fill it with more fun options. That is our history, and that is the legacy all generations before us have left to us. The sooner we, as a species, focus all of our efforts to solve problems through positive action, the sooner we will resolve issues like climate change, depletion of natural resources, etc.