Legalization of Prostitution

[Theairoh]

Originally posted by Gromgor
Prostitution should be legalized so it can be better monitored rather than being a refuge for the drug-ridden and desperate.

Your other points don't bother me, I think they're entirely debatable, but this I had to read twice.

This is just an awful idea and I have a hard time believing you could be serious about this.

[Gromgor]

Originally posted by Theairoh
Your other points don't bother me, I think they're entirely debatable, but this I had to read twice.

This is just an awful idea and I have a hard time believing you could be serious about this.

Nevada has legalized prostitution. The ladies involved are safe, clean and make good money...it's a tested model that works.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Theairoh

This is just an awful idea and I have a hard time believing you could be serious about this.

How is legalizing it and monitoring it a worse idea than the current reality of prostitution?

Right now, the fact that it is illegal is why it can so easily be used as a form of human slavery. It is also why there are so many children forced into prostitution. Legalizing it would make that a lot more difficult since the whole economy of prostitution would be monitored.

[Gromgor]

Originally posted by Grantref
No, but the context of those activities may be such that they emperil his position. Ari pointed out in another thread about one of these situations (I forget whether it was about Larry Craig or someone else) that engaging in these kinds of activities in secret makes one vulnerable to blackmail, which in turn can be damaging to the security and well-being of the nation, state, or whatever constituency a politician was elected to serve, if a special interest uses blackmail to prevent or encourage government action so to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else.

Wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem if government had less power and authority over our lives...but that is for an entirely different debate.

[Theairoh]

Human slavery and prostitution aren't necessarily related. Whether you're forcing someone to churn butter, or turn tricks on the street corner makes no difference. Forcing someone to do something for you and reaping the rewards will always be profitable, and therefore it's always going to be a crime in a country built around the idealism of 'freedom' whether you make the work itself being practiced by slaves legal or not. Whether it becomes legal or not really just gives people the opportunity to question whether it's 'right' or 'wrong,' and therefore more ability to bullshit around the matter in court.

In any case: So what if there is an isolated incident of legal 'clean' prostitution in our country? There happens to have always been isolated occurrences where prostitutes are able to avoid catching diseases, all over the country, all throughout history. It just comes down to whether or not you were smart about the condom, not whether or not it was legal and 'monitored.'

Anyway, I'm not concerned about the abhorrent state of living that (the majority of) prostitutes undoubtedly suffer in this country. What frustrates me about this whole concept is how adversely it would affect every working individual in the country. If it is legal how long before talent and ability, the only truly valuable human resource still sacred to corporate America, becomes utterly worthless when all that a proper working person needs is a hole and maybe a license to verify they don't have any diseases?

Fuck, why even bother with highschool anymore? Why bother with anything at all? Let's just fuck each other's brains out for a living. How long before currency (in a nation built upon the concept of capitalism) stops mattering altogether?

No thank you. I think I'll rally up with the terrorists when that happens.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Theairoh
Human slavery and prostitution aren't necessarily related.

Except for the fact that they are. There is no legal recourse for someone involved in prostitution to report a pimp who enslaves them. They are working in an illegal industry, and thus they have no recourse. You can't bring in OSHA to penalize them for unsafe working conditions. You can't contact the Labor Department about unpaid overtime.

Because it is outside the law, and because there are no legal outlets for people to pursue a grievance, everything is enforced through violence. That is why the human slavery aspect abounds, and that is why underage children can so easily be forced into work.

Also, since the customers are forced to commit a crime to purchase this "product", they are unable to make an informed choice to NOT hire underage prostitutes or prostitutes that have been enslaved.

Originally posted by Theairoh

If it is legal how long before talent and ability, the only truly valuable human resource still sacred to corporate America, becomes utterly worthless when all that a proper working person needs is a hole and maybe a license to verify they don't have any diseases?

Huh? How are these things even connected. How would the legalization of prostitution affect the qualifications of any other job? How would the existence of legal prostitutes make it harder for a good graphics artist to market their talent to a web design company? Or a talented accountant to market their talents to an accounting firm?

Originally posted by Theairoh

Fuck, why even bother with highschool anymore? Why bother with anything at all? Let's just fuck each other's brains out for a living. How long before currency (in a nation built upon the concept of capitalism) stops mattering altogether?

Huh? How are you suggesting that this would happen. Prostitution already exists. People can already fuck for money if they want. Making it legal is not going to suddenly make everyone decide that is what they want to do for a living. Most people will still give it up for free just as they always have.

Your last few paragraphs made absolutely no sense and were totally irrational. You made causal connections between things that are not even related in any way.

[Theairoh]

There is no legal recourse for someone involved in prostitution to report a pimp who enslaves them.

There's a difference between a hooker who starts working as a hooker and then gets enslaved versus an individual who is outright forced to work under the same conditions after being kidnapped/bred. One is incredibly stupid, the other is being taken advantage of. Legalizing this only makes this mess far more frustrating, because instead of pimps, you'll have entire corporations built up from the ground who bully people into working for them.

You can't bring in OSHA to penalize them for unsafe working conditions. You can't contact the Labor Department about unpaid overtime.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about, you start giving these people rights and it's all they'll do. They'll be entitled to minimum wages, worker's compensation, and all sorts of incredible horrors because now they're 'legal.'

And regardless of the state of things, sooner or later it will become mandatory for prostitutes to carry licenses, and that is when the whole thing will become completely pointless because then you'll have illegal prostitution to enforce ON TOP of rampant legals. And the underage thing will never stop. Supply and demand is just a reality there, and no one will ever legalize that.

Also, since the customers are forced to commit a crime to purchase this "product", they are unable to make an informed choice to NOT hire underage prostitutes or prostitutes that have been enslaved.

Most people who blow the better part of their income on sex won't care either way. The majority of consumers in the industry are sleaze.

How would the legalization of prostitution affect the qualifications of any other job? How would the existence of legal prostitutes make it harder for a good graphics artist to market their talent to a web design company? Or a talented accountant to market their talents to an accounting firm?

Sex sells. Most of our economy is geared towards selling it. And given how totally immature corporate America is, once prostitution is legalized we will gradually see that sex will become ALL our economy sells because they won't want anything else.

The more complex needs of modern civilization disappear pretty rapidly when there's plenty of food and people to sleep around with. We'll simply devolve until there's nothing left. Yes, they're still be the needs of those who make all the money off the prostitution business, but for fuck's sake I can't imagine a worse way to widen the gap between the poor and the rich. America is already horrible in keeping low income families in their place, with the rich on top, you turn on a business like this and soon all we'll have is the classes of the sexually exploited, and the lavish.

And that, is a godforsaken concept of a country I will not support. You go ahead and live up a dream where your mother, son, daughter, nephew, husband, uncle, grand children, best friend, boss, barber, and girlfriend can all sell their bodies for the remainder of their life for 7.50 an hour.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Theairoh

And this is exactly what I'm talking about, you start giving these people rights and it's all they'll do.

That is absolutely ridiculous. You act like the only thing stopping "everyone" from being a prostitute is the fact that it is illegal. I imagine the biggest thing stopping people from pursuing this line of work is, I dunno, maybe the fact that fucking anyone for money is not terribly palatable for most people.

Originally posted by Theairoh

And regardless of the state of things, sooner or later it will become mandatory for prostitutes to carry licenses, and that is when the whole thing will become completely pointless because then you'll have illegal prostitution to enforce ON TOP of rampant legals.

Why would a customer choose the illegal market over the legal one? The overwhelming majority would go the legal route. Black markets for products happen when there is a market inefficiency. If you solve that market inefficiency, the black markets either totally disappear or shrink enormously. That is just basic economics.

Originally posted by Theairoh
Sex sells. Most of our economy is geared towards selling it. And given how totally immature corporate America is, once prostitution is legalized we will gradually see that sex will become ALL our economy sells because they won't want anything else.

Are you trolling or do you actually believe this incredibly ridiculous nonsense?

People could already spend all of their money on sex right now if they wanted to. But they don't. Why? Because they don't want to. Even if you only compare it to other leisure activities, you can easily see how ridiculous your claim is.

Example: According to the A.C. Nielsen Co, "the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day."

Sex is wonderful and all, but 4 hours per day? Hell no.

People are already able to get sex for free if they want it. But they still spend time doing many other things than just sitting around bumping uglies. Why? Because they CHOOSE TO.

People actually enjoy doing other things. They like watching television, reading books, playing computer games, going out to eat, going to museums, watching sports, swimming, playing tennis, playing golf, or all manner of other hobbies. Very few people would choose sex over all of their hobbies all of the time.

And how would legal prostitution stop the need for corporations to create cars, airplanes, computers, plastics, houses, toothpaste, toilet paper, widgets, or any other product or service that will be in just as much demand regardless of the legal status of prostitution.

If you hate the idea of legalizing something that is immoral, fine. Just say so. But don't be completely ridiculous and claim that the only thing keeping human brings from screwing 24 hours a day is the fact that prostitution is illegal.

[Theairoh]

You act like the only thing stopping "everyone" from being a prostitute is the fact that it is illegal.

No, what I said was that making it legal would lead to everyone (in this case everyone being the majority of lower class peoples, among others) becoming a prostitute because they would be entitled to compensation and other rights that individuals in legally recognized professions all receive. In other words, becoming a prostitute now has massive rewards because it is legally sanctioned and prostitutes will be entitled to being treated with a certain level of dignity that they didn't before, on top of being able to sell their services legally. How do you not see that this takes away a great deal of the sting associated with being a prostitute?

I imagine the biggest thing stopping people ... is not terribly palatable for most people.

Judging by this logic, you should see what I'm trying to say above in that being a prostitute isn't so bad once you have rights and the ability to sell anywhere, and to anyone that the law allows. I'm sure a lot of people in our day and age where prostitution is illegal look at that line of work and aren't so much phased by the fact that someone is being paid to have sex, but by the fact that the majority of work that the average prostitute does is repulsive, agonizing, debilitating for both the body, and ego, as well as extremely underprivileged. But legal prostitutes don't have to look at it the same way because they have rights, and when that fat pig who just fucked your ass doesn't pay you can probably sue his dick off or just get him hit with rape.

I'm not saying that legal prostitution is going to be turned into a wonder job, but it certainly won't be nearly as bad as it is. When you consider how many kids drop out of high school every day, because our education system sucks, and all our teachers are underpaid, you have to wonder if a profession that promises surely half-way decent wages and fair working conditions that requires utterly no experience at all isn't going to turn those numbers record high. I'm sure the demand for prostitution will also soar once it's legal because a lot of the reason decent folk with well-paying jobs avoid it, is because they can ruin their reputations, lives, and careers by engaging in sexual solicitation. But with laws protecting them, they won't have to worry about all THAT anymore.

Why would a customer choose the illegal market over the legal ... That is just basic economics.

That's wonderful and all, but prostitution isn't a 'product' it's a service. It'd be one thing if you were talking about making the sale of weapons legal, because weapons don't have feelings and bitch about how much you sell them for or how hard you work them or jam those rounds into them. But this idea you're peddling is like saying a hitman will be less remorseless as long as he knows his job is legal. Except hitmen don't give a shit, they just want to get paid for doing what they do really well.

People could already spend all of their money on sex right now if they wanted to. But they don't. Why? Because they don't want to. Even if ...

They could also get arrested for it, because it's still illegal. I wonder if that's making them stop and think about it at all.

People are already able to get sex for free if they want it. But they still spend time doing many other things than just sitting around bumping uglies. Why? Because they CHOOSE TO.

Of course. Because for the time being sex doesn't have a value because American's don't have to face the choice of whether or not they want to sell their bodies, either casually or professionally. You're talking about giving sex a value, basically, which means that the next time you sleep with someone they would be entitled to asking you to pay them, which legally they could in the circumstances of legal prostitution. Unless you want to debate the definition of prostitution.

EVERY American will have to face that choice when the policy of legal prostitution comes to rear it's ugly head. Don't be too surprised if the better half of us go with the 'getting paid' option.

And how would legal prostitution stop the need for corporations ... demand regardless of the legal status of prostitution.

It won't stop those demands, but it will create a new and incredibly large demand in a new market that I'm sure plenty of YOUR CHILDREN will be glad to provide supply for. You don't have to work very hard to be a prostitute, even with it being illegal, and I'm sure the wages would be just great in the face of a new, legal market that corporations all across the globe will jump right on so they can build some stupid monopoly like they do with everything. Why bother with a long, arduous trek through our ridiculous education system when you can be out and about the streets at twenty one (my best estimate at the legal age for such a profession, don't quote me) with a full paying job with such minimal requirements?

If you hate the idea of legalizing something that is immoral, fine.

I'm flattered and all, but I don't have a moral center to augment any bias's in my argument, feel free to keep looking though. I just have a finely tuned bull shit radar I like to call common sense.

[Aristotle]

I can't discuss something with someone being this irrational.

There is absolutely no way that legalizing "the oldest profession in the world" would suddenly reduce our entire civilization into a puddle of goo that did nothing but have sex for money. That doesn't even make any sense at all.

You simply cannot draw a reasonable, causal connection between those two things. It is like trying to argue that lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18 would cause aliens to invade and we wouldn't know about it because we would all be drunk. It just doesn't make sense and is not at all connected.