Hillary 4 U and Me!

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Grantref
Both Obama and McCain, on the other and gripping hands, really strike me as honest, or at least as honest as a politician can be. Policies don't matter as much when it comes to a president as integrity does

I agree on both points. Integrity is at least as important as stances on issues, and very likely more important.

If our choices this year are Obama or McCain, we might have our best set of options as long as I've been able to vote.

[Belair]

Originally posted by Aristotle
The sad thing is, TONS of women will vote for her simply because she is a woman.

This reminds me of a clip from theonion: Poll: Bullshit Is Most Important Issue For 2008 Voters

[Wrent]

I wish I could remember where I read this 'theory' ....

I had read somewhere about 6-8 weeks ago about Hilary being very very unlikely to go the distance. This theory stated that, subconsciously, the American people would oppose a pseudo monarchy. As was already pointed out, a Bush or Clinton was in power for the past 20 years. The nature of the US democratic system is rooted in turnover/change of leadership in the executive branch. There is a subliminal desire for new faces/names.

The net result is that the author believed it impossible for another Bush/Clinton presidential bid. Americans would steer to change regardless policy or issue stances of candidates. I remember the author was a Hilary supporter, but was upset over the timing and impatience of the Dems with pushing Hilary for THIS election, as opposed to the next.

Personally, I feel that Obama is less blatantly "corrupt" (for lack of better term). However I do have issues with his over use of the Race / Oprah card.

More than once Oprah has said or alleged things akin to - "With a black man in office, black people will suddenly be more empowered/better off."

Don't read that point of fact as my having a problem with the concept... merely I feel that the concept is extremely racist.

No white person campaigning for president could say or have said "White people will be more empowered/better off." with soandso in office. Why should educated, logical people tolerate the converse to be 'advertised'...

[leira]

Originally posted by Wrent
More than once Oprah has said or alleged things akin to - "With a black man in office, black people will suddenly be more empowered/better off."

Don't read that point of fact as my having a problem with the concept... merely I feel that the concept is extremely racist.

No white person campaigning for president could say or have said "White people will be more empowered/better off." with soandso in office. Why should educated, logical people tolerate the converse to be 'advertised'...

Have you got a specific quote for this? Depending what was actually said, I might be in agreement with you. However, their may be non-racist ways to interprate it.

I think America having a black president would empower black people. It would show them that they can reach for the top, and the color of their skin won't stop them. It'll cut the legs out from under idiots like Al Sharpton who profit from racism. It'll give African-Americans hope and a morale boost, which should have a beneficial effect on them.

I think Hillary as president would have a similar effect for American women, as would any minority president really. White men already know they can make it to the top. It's everybody else that has some doubt.

[Pyrosama]

Originally posted by Aristotle

The sad thing is, TONS of women will vote for her simply because she is a woman. These women are getting a raw deal in their first chance to vote for a woman.

Sad thing indeed. But the same thing exists with Obama. Many would vote for him because of the opportunity to vote for the first African American presidential candidate.

I seriously would much rather see a combined effort on the Republican side to get Rice somewhere on the ticket. That is one friggin awesome black woman!

[Sebboe]

I like McCain in general but his commitment to stay in Iraq for 100 years if needed is a killer for me.

I definitely am glad Obama is now leading over Hillary but I probably will vote for an independent as usual.

I don't think McCain or Obama would make bad presidents but I don't see either of them really changing things dramatically.

I hope I'm wrong.

[leira]

Originally posted by Sebboe
but I probably will vote for an independent as usual.

I've really got to commend you for doing this. Too many people think that they'd be throwing their vote away. Problem is, the only reason that's true is because everybody believes it and thus doesn't vote independant. Self fulfilling prophecy really. If everybody who wasn't satisfied with either the democrats or republicans would just vote for somebody else, I think things would change quite quickly.

[Sebboe]

Originally posted by leira
I've really got to commend you for doing this. Too many people think that they'd be throwing their vote away. Problem is, the only reason that's true is because everybody believes it and thus doesn't vote independant. Self fulfilling prophecy really. If everybody who wasn't satisfied with either the democrats or republicans would just vote for somebody else, I think things would change quite quickly.

ahhh.. finally someone who gets my vote.

i'm voting for "none of the above"
i'm voting for change
i'm voting to make third party candidates viable

now that nader is running it will be an easy vote for me.

the reason he is not able to be part of the debates is the nationional debate commission set a rule that says you have to have 15% of the vote in 5 major polls to get up on stage. they problem is that this NDC is a private company funded by both the democrats and the republicans.

one time he had a pass to be in the audience for the debates and he was not even allowed in the building.

i don't think the problem is mccain or clinton or obama as much as it's the political machine has run out of control and no notices because they all get sucked into hot issues like the war, roe v wade, mud slinging and whatever makes headlines.

the parties create platforms and then the candidates have to pander to them. it's really sad that a candidate could have the greatest ideas in he world but if he or she is not associated with a donkey or an elephant the ideas become irrelevant.

it's really sad that both sides have some good ideals and values but because they have some differences they spend their entire political lives in adversity towards our own country.

[Savaric]

Originally posted by Wrent
Personally, I feel that Obama is less blatantly "corrupt" (for lack of better term). However I do have issues with his over use of the Race / Oprah card.

I think Obama wants to go down in history not only as a black president but a good one. I think his motives are genuine, but that's an opinion (this is not science). He kinda reminds me of another potential Tiger Woods, or maybe has similar aspirations.

As far as race and Oprah go that's life. People use every advantage they can get ahold of. In this case Hillary was a strong contendor for black votes and I think he did that to up his odds. It is politics afterall.