Allow me to clarify. I don't think of all philosophical/political discussions as useless in the least - if I did, it'd be kind of hard to explain any of my posts here. I think those positions on several specific topics are fairly pointless, simply because the issues themselves are so irretreivably wrapped in largely emotional impressions of how one views any given state, their own ideology, etc., that I think actually trying to -argue- torture (or more specifically, since that's a much rarer argument, if there's ever an acceptable reason to use torture, whether specific methods of interrogation are torture, what the penalty for such should be, and so on) is pretty much pointless. It falls into the great category along with abortion as to "things I will avoid debating because I can't get that time back and have no chance to change anyone's mind." Obviously, since I started in on the thread, I at least implicitly waived my feelings on the matter.

Working backwards up through your post, there are probably dozens of them in this thread - I read some posts more closely than others, just due to time constraints and triage that results. I think that some people argue to closer in good faith (like yourself) than others, and when I perceive someone as, rather than attempting to discuss the issue that's been brought up, more or less using any issue at hand to complain about the target of their perennial bitching, I tend to single that poster out for extra scrutiny. As it happens, Kestra qualified. For what it's worth, though, next time, I'll try to keep what you said in mind, and at least accompany my dissections with a corresponding post listing my thoughts in the matter in a more coherent manner than the one above (the disjointed paragraph in my prior post). I'd sit down and write a treatise on the whole matter, but I'm in the middle of finals, and to tell you the truth, even the fifteen minutes spent writing this was probably more than I should have.

Anyway.

You're perfectly welcome, I take your statements as questions issued for the purpose of resolving the discussion, I'm glad you viewed my critiques prior as in good faith, and I'm happy this largely stayed in a civil tone. Hopefully this isn't so ridiculously off-topic so as to derail the thread permanently.