Boston Teams, Fans, and why people hate them.

[Wrent]

Originally posted by Blog
No one with a heart likes anything about the Patriots or any other team near Boston for that matter.

Man, remember before New England or Boston won anything... and everyone loved them and routed for their beating the evil yankees etc...


Guess as soon as cinderella gets to the ball she's a $2 hooker....

[Aristotle]

This could be a whole thread of its own... [Edit by Aristotle: And after further review, now it IS its own thread!]

Originally posted by Wrent
Man, remember before New England or Boston won anything... and everyone loved them and routed for their beating the evil yankees etc...

Guess as soon as cinderella gets to the ball she's a $2 hooker....

I think the problem is that once Boston teams started winning titles, the fans got excruciatingly obnoxious.

They started acting like the fans they claimed were evil (Yankees, etc.). They (as a group, not speaking of any individuals here) started acting like they deserved the title every year since they suffered so long and were just cooler and morally superior to all the other teams.

Then there is crap like the Patriots saying the media takes them for granted or attacks them, when 90% of the time the media is swallowing the Boston team jizz at every turn.

Then there are huge assholes like Belichik who think they are more important than his players or the entire sport.

Then there is their moral indignation and shock that people DARE be upset about the Patriots getting CAUGHT cheating. All manner of excuses have been offered up: "everyone does it", "its no big deal", "move on already" (sounds like moveon.org's whole excuse), etc. Sorry, when you cheat you have to take all the negative reactions on the chin because you earned it and deserve it.

But last of all, there is this weird belief amongst the general populace of Boston fans that everyone else in the country SHOULD be rooting for their teams over anyone else. It is like they remember back when a lot of people nationwide rooted for them because they were tortured, bad luck losers, and think that sentiment should carry over into a time where they are actually successful.

Sorry, no more free pass guys. Now if you want nationwide appeal, you have to earn it on the merits. And Bill Belichik, a ~$200 million baseball payroll, and Doc Rivers ain't gonna do it.

That said... I would still like to see the Celtics do well this year. I can't help but like KG. He tried so hard to make that Minnesota team good. He could have left long ago but he didn't. He practically had to be forced to leave them behind.

And also with that said... I'd like to see the Pats go 19-0. And Boston winning the World Series was fine with me too.

So I guess I'm kinda schizophrenic. I find Boston fans irritating and when their teams get owned I see a certain karmic justice being applied. But at the same time, I still kinda like their teams and part of me is glad when they do well.

[Aristotle]

LOL. Perfect example. I am reading an article on ESPN.com about A-Rod, and a Boston fan writes:

But A-Fraud would dampen any mystique the Sox have.

LOL. What mystique? The Red Sox are a team. They are beloved by many, but the mystique exists for their fans. That's it.

That is the kind of crap that makes Boston fans so irritating. Stop believing your own hype.

And in another comment, a bystander setting the Boston fanboys straight:

"Maybe it would work out"? "Pay-Rod in Beantown . . . NEVER"? Give me a break! His Red Sox jersey would be the highest grossing sale in the WORLD if he went to Boston. Every last one of you would be cheering his name to the heavens. News flash: Randy Moss is a bad teammate. He is a bad apple, and a bad person, but y'all cheer him like he is the next Mother Teresa. Let's not be silly about all of this--you would LOVE him. A-Rod would be just as comfortable in Boston as a bad accent or a bandwagon sports fan.

[Darion]

I don't agree that Boston fans are more obnoxious now that they've won a title simply based on a few message board posts - the type of people that post on Redsox.com forums are obviously heavily biased (read - stupid) in their opinions. I tend to believe that people hate Boston sports teams (in this context, only the Pats and Sox because no one seems to hate the Celtics or the Bruins) simply because they are consistently winning.

As far as A-Rod, having him would be excellent. I would rather go after Mike Lowell first, now that our pitching staff is locked up. I maintain that a best-case scenario involves keeping Lowell and signing A-Rod to close the revolving door at SS and make the Sox the best team ever. That's just an aside, however.

The sports media is loving the Pats video scandal because it gives them controversey that is generally not always present in the football system and it targets the best team in the league. Now they have latched on to the "running up the score" arguments to try and keep the flames fanned. It is meaningless.

[Blog]

If I have no link to a team, through living there in the past or whatever, I generally like to see the underdogs succeed. Neither the Sox or the Patriots seem to be very likable either right now, maybe the articles I read are biased, but I just don't see any neat storylines there, the two biggest are cheating and paying $4892 million payroll.

KG in Boston I can probably root for, we'll see how it turns out.

[Wrent]

Well, personally, I feel the sports are a little different. I haven't followed basketball for years now, so I'll stick to the Sox and Pats.


To me these two organizations are very different. The Patriots, in my eyes are a lot like the early 90's San Fran team. They are (largely) not SUPER MARQUEE names. A lot of players -want- to play there when they honestly could get paid a lot more. I was very skeptical about the Moss deal at first. I hated him as a Viking. I loathed his candy ass attitude and condescending antics. But, he seems to have grown thus far. He will run over the middle, run after a catch instead of out the sideline. He is finally (imo) living up to his abilities.

As for Belichik... I truly feel he is the greatest coach of our time. The man is brilliant year after year. The signal stealing is a bad thing. I don't feel that they "needed" that extra edge, not by any means. I credit him largely because I can't ignore the massive number of his underlings that move up and on and have successes basing their philosophy on things he taught them. All those coaches leaving and he still is great.

The Sox, however, are beginning to turn into that which they despised for so so long. Big Payroll, buy-a-title evil empire. Their first title run I really rooted for them. They were scrap by, play as a team underdogs. Title came and they just took the extra prestige and bought players.

To me, pro-sports is more about the team mentality and cohesive efforts of talented people... not who can afford to buy the best individuals and hope the egos don't implode the season.

I like the Pats still, I am starting to feel like Boston are the new Yankees though.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Darion
I don't agree that Boston fans are more obnoxious now that they've won a title simply based on a few message board posts - the type of people that post on Redsox.com forums are obviously heavily biased (read - stupid) in their opinions. I tend to believe that people hate Boston sports teams (in this context, only the Pats and Sox because no one seems to hate the Celtics or the Bruins) simply because they are consistently winning.

That last statement is an example of why people have had enough with Boston fans. No, it is not because Boston teams are winning. That part was fine - great even.

The problems are the things I listed already, and probably a lot more.

And I am not basing this just on fan posts - though that is indeed one good example. I'm talking about fans I interact with on an almost daily basis (online and in RL), major sportswriters (including but not limited to Bill Simmons), and a variety of other sources.

Then there is the behavior of the players of these teams themselves - crying about being "underrated" or underappreciated by the media. Give me a fucking break.

Originally posted by Darion

As far as A-Rod, having him would be excellent. I would rather go after Mike Lowell first, now that our pitching staff is locked up. I maintain that a best-case scenario involves keeping Lowell and signing A-Rod to close the revolving door at SS and make the Sox the best team ever. That's just an aside, however.

I agree. I don't see how any rational fan cannot see how huge it would be to add A-Rod to a team that has lacked a good SS since Garciaparra fell to pieces. Assuming the team is wealthy enough to pay A-Rod without having to cut corners elsewhere (which Boston can do).

Originally posted by Darion

The sports media is loving the Pats video scandal because it gives them controversey that is generally not always present in the football system and it targets the best team in the league. Now they have latched on to the "running up the score" arguments to try and keep the flames fanned. It is meaningless.

I don't think the media is loving the scandal at all. I think the media has mostly given the Pats a pass. They can't totally ignore it because it is a pretty heinous thing to have happen. Most of the media continues to fellate the Pats and everything they do.

They haven't "latched onto" the running up the score issue either. It is getting mentioned here and there, but again, Belichick is mostly getting a pass.

What BB is doing right now is lame for the sport, lame for MOST of the fans, and lame for the NFL in general. It shows a lack of sportsmanship and one man's egomaniacal anger towards a league that DARED to punish him for cheating. The only people that enjoy BB running up the score are die hard Pats fans, BB himself, and his players (until a crucial starter gets injured late in the 4th quarter up by 4 touchdowns or more). For everyone else, it just looks like a petulant child taking out his anger on hapless teams that cannot match the best team of all time. Sadly, that petulance is making it harder and harder to just sit back and enjoy their greatness. That last part might be what annoys me the most about BB in particular. He is robbing me of the full enjoyment I could be getting from watching this awesome team.

[Darion]

It seems like most of the anger is directed toward the Patriots and Red Sox. I'll go one at a time.

Most of the gripes I hear directed at the RS are based on payroll considerations in that we are "becoming the Yankees" because the organization has a high payroll and is using the payroll to acquire players. The RS have had the second highest payroll for a long time. The only difference now is that the Yankees are basically on a downturn with several aging/overpaid players and the Red Sox are on an upswing with the introduction of several rookies that panned out very well. I don't feel like Boston fans thought they were "entitled" to the WS championship, though I will say that as soon as the Yankees were eliminated from the playoffs I was sure we would win. The Sox are spending money pretty well so far, outside of JD Drew who still picked it up some toward the end of the year and has not had a long stint on the DL yet despite his bad shoulder.

It seems like the major argument against the Pats is that Big Bill is Not A Nice Man and they aren't winning nicely enough. He is generally making a mockery of the NFL's attempts at parity via the salary cap, certainly, but the main things I hear about the Pats are that they are disrespecting the game by leaving starters in. I hate this particular debate, as if the outcome of the game is a foregone conclusion the losing team should just forefit or pull all their own starters. It's not the job of the winning team to win less, especially when a second string QB is scrambling 12 yards for a TD. If you don't want to get crushed, field a better team and staff.

As far as the video scandal is concerned, I still believe it was blown far out of proportion and I liken it to stealing signs in baseball. The only difference between the mediums is that the Patriots videotaped the signs while baseball teams simply look at the pitcher's grip or catcher's hands and signal it in. Defensive signals are switched every game at halftime if a team has any semblance of sense, and unless you are going to argue that the taping somehow provided the Pats with an instant advantage in the game being played, I don't see how it is relevant given that they were caught on game 1 of the season and are ostensibly not doing it anymore.

[Blog]

Add this to the reasons why, their success had made Bill Simmons almost unreadable.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...9&sportCat=nfl

[Darion]

I don't particularly enjoy the sports media as a whole, and I definitely tend not to read Bill Simmons as he's a well-known Boston homer.