Computers and such

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Kerrida
About the only time we'd recommend buying something like a Dell or any of the other brands out there) was if the person had no intentions of upgrading the parts down the road (used to be an issue due to them all liking to use proprietary hardware and crap.. not so much of an issue now) and if they did not have someone who could be their Techie if it was needed. Of course.. building them yourself used to be cheaper.. now it's not as big of a price difference.

Actually, there is a price difference. Last night my Dad showed me the invoice for a computer that Neighbourhood Watch had bought for its secretary. His gut feeling was that they'd paid too much, and I was able to point out a dozen entries that supported his gut. I could have put together a system of similar spec for half what they paid, and I probably could have given them something ample to their needs for a quarter. (They got a DVD-RW with the system, and they were buying a 19" widescreen LCD, which IMHO is a gross waste of money if you're doing secretarial work - who wants to write letters widescreen? You need height!) For under $300 (Australian - but at the moment that's pretty similar to US), I built a single-core system of pretty good spec; granted, that was already having the case and a couple of components (eg CD-ROM), but it could have been done from nothing for $400 or thereabouts.

The main thing about buying a complete system is that you can't downgrade it. If the system includes a DVD burner and a floppy drive, and all you ever do is read CDs, you can't downgrade to a CD-ROM and no FDD and save money. Building a system from components gives you full flexibility.

However, buying a _secondhand_ complete system is often a good bargain. If you don't need the latest and greatest, buy yourself a complete system and save heaps. (Of course, make sure you're buying from a reputable seller! We have a great little computer parts/systems place not far from us, but be careful of buying from random people on ebay or somesuch.) Even if the system isn't quite all you want - skimpy RAM, or slow hard disk, or won't read a DVD - it may be worthwhile.

Different strokes for different folks. It's all a matter of judging the individual situation and the precise needs, really.

[Kerrida]

Oh, you can definitely build things for exactly what you need for cheaper, but I was meaning if you try to build something with the equivalent specs to the store bought machines. In the past few years they've gotten to where they are similar in price whether you buy the parts and assemble yourself or get the pre-built stuff.

[Savaric]

Originally posted by Kerrida
In the past few years they've gotten to where they are similar in price whether you buy the parts and assemble yourself or get the pre-built stuff.

The investigating I've done points to this as well. It used to be building was a much better alternative for quality/price value but that the gap has been shrinking over the years. Now the benefits aren't as pronounced and pre-built computers are offering better value than what once was.

I'm intrigued by building my own. It does sound fun and I could do it (assembly) with confidence, but it falls back on warranty and convenience.

Oh and tom's hardware that Sier provided is exactly what I was looking for. Comprehensive and well-written articles and reviews, advice, etc..

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Savaric
I'm intrigued by building my own. It does sound fun and I could do it (assembly) with confidence, but it falls back on warranty and convenience.

All you need is a bit of screwdriver nous and some common sense, and you can put a computer together (eg the CPU will come with complete instructions on how to install it into a mainboard). However, even a reknowned geek can botch things when building a computer - *blush* Can't remember what I did, but I got something pretty obvious wrong, like forgot to plug something in, or something, and it took me rather too long to figure it out.

Warranty - as has been mentioned earlier, all your components should have warranties. Instead of having a wnty on the computer, which means you have to take the whole thing back if anything fails, you have a warranty on the hard disk, and a separate one on the RAM. So if you get a RAM fault, you pull out the failing stick, take it back, and meanwhile keep running on the other (well, assuming you bought two sticks, that is!). Yes, it can be more trouble, especially if you're unlucky enough to have two components fail. But if you bought a complete system and two components failed, chances are it'd still mean two services - because they won't fail at the same time. And if you only take back (say) the stick of RAM, you avoid the risk that they'll give you a completely new system that has a fresh hard disk (forcing you to set it up all over again - happened to us, happened to lots of people), and maybe even one with additional faults. Plus, added bonus! Some components come with pretty long warranties. You could well get three or five years on a lot of things, whereas a complete system purchase is three if you're lucky, and one year if it's a cheap system.

Convenience, though - that's where buying a complete system wins hands down. Well, probably. Certainly you can just grab something out of the box and use it; although personally I enjoy knowing every teensy weensy intimate detail of my computers (and for people in the know, that was deliberate - they're not disgusting at all), so that when things happen later, I have the knowledge. But if you're wanting to get started NOW, then buy a complete system. It took me a good day to set up out of components, although I could knock that down a good bit if I didn't keep breaking off to react to Threshold!

[Savaric]

If anyone is interested I've decided to build my own computer with individual parts. Perhaps in less than a month I can post some results of what I would have gotten with a dell for 1200 and what I will have by building my own. Might be valuable insight into the build your own vs. buy retail decision (for people with minimul pc knowledge).

[Sier]

It seemed like you were interested in the specifications I gave you earlier. The site I usually rely on is newegg.com. Its easy to search for exactly what part you want. If you want to go intel, I suggest the core 2 duo so you have plenty of future in the processor. If you want to go AMD (My preference, less cost) then go with a AMD X2 series 5000 or later. The motherboard should match the processor type, but make sure that it supports PCI express x16 and it may be wise to make sure it supports more than 2 gb of memory. I don't think many, if any listed on the site have any problems running vista. Whenever you pick your motherboard, check what the maximum speed of memory it supports is and choose your memory by that number. As for your power supply..pick something 20(4) pins so it will work with any motherboard. *If* you invest in a 7800 or 8800 graphics card or greater, you will need a power supply 500 watts or higher. You can get away with 400 on anything else. Hard drive doesn't matter to much, but you may want Sata 3.0 interface.

If you have more than enough money to spend, I'd reccomend the new Geforce 8800 GT..which is running around 250 dollars right now. That graphics card will last you at least 3 years and it is currently a monster.

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Savaric
If anyone is interested I've decided to build my own computer with individual parts. Perhaps in less than a month I can post some results of what I would have gotten with a dell for 1200 and what I will have by building my own. Might be valuable insight into the build your own vs. buy retail decision (for people with minimul pc knowledge).

Thanks, Savaric! This will be worth knowing. I can trot out the details of my latest build, too, including component prices; mine will show what you can do for a pittance... well, not quite, let's say for two pittances. Yours will show how spiffy a box can be made if you spend some decent money.

I'm personally interested, too.

[Savaric]

Well I spoke with Dell people several times on the exact components of their build. Then I compared it to what I can build with the same money. It's a pretty big gap.

The card will be the 8800 gts 320 mb. The chip will be an e6750. Motherboard will probably take a lot of consideration. Rest looks pretty straight forward. Exception being the case. How do you pick a good case? I don't care about flashy neon lights or cool looks. Good ventilation and room for components is what I want.

Will I need an extra fan in this thing or is the cpu cooler and psu fan adequate? No overclocking on this.

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Savaric
Motherboard will probably take a lot of consideration.

Well, obviously it has to match your CPU. Beyond that... it really depends on what you want to stick in this computer. If you're putting in a hot graphics card, for instance, you don't need much from the onboard. You'll probably get 100Mb ethernet, but if gigabit is of value to you, shop around and you'll probably find a mobo that provides all you want. Etcetera.

Exception being the case. How do you pick a good case? I don't care about flashy neon lights or cool looks. Good ventilation and room for components is what I want.

Measure the space on your desk, subtract a bit to allow for cables, and then get the biggest case that will fit. Although - Having found specs for a case that appears to fit, it might be worth knocking up a carboard mockup - cut down a box to the precise size of your proposed case, and physically place it on the desk, to see how well it'll all fit together.

I don't know if you have any way to know these things before you buy, but the ideal case is easy to open, close, and move components around in. It needs to have enough structure to withstand the rigorous stresses it'll get in everyday use, but not so much structure that it gets away from you.

Do you need front panel facilities? For example, USB ports, headphones jack, etc? You often need to match these across mobo and case. It can be quite handy, if you need it, but if it's not provided, tough.

What's the shape of the power switch? Is it convenient, without being accidentally pushable? Does the box orient itself in a convenient way? All fairly minor questions, really.

Will I need an extra fan in this thing or is the cpu cooler and psu fan adequate? No overclocking on this.

You're looking at putting in a hefty video card. You might need some extra cooling. As I'm not one to do that sort of thing, I really don't know... someone else will answer this part.

[Kerrida]

I recently upgraded my machine. I don't have my price list on me right now, but I know I spent right around $500 for everything I got.

eVGA nVidia 8500 pci-e16x 512MB DDR2
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+
Asus M2Ne-SLI mobo
1GB 667mhtz DDR2 (will be getting at least 1GB more after the holidays)
550watt PSU
250GB 7200rpm WD SATA HD

Vid card was on sale for like $120
psu was really cheap
Most of the cost was the CPU and mobo

My case is an old Antec Midtower that I bought when I last purchased a system. It has 3 fans (8cm if I recall), all simply pulling air out. System has plenty of breathing room, and temperature runs at about 93F for the CPU and 95F for the ram when not running games and such. It's not terrible, but I'd like to have more fans. However, the machine already is louder than my old one, mainly because of the larger CPU fan.

And I don't overclock.. though I have underclocked my cpu before. Old mach I had years ago was more stable when running just under the intended clock speed.