Iraq Revokes All Contractor Immunity

[kestra]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071024...restblackwater

This is great news!! A supposedly sovereign nation at work, hopefully.

[Rilthyn]

I don't get it, are you against this?

I read that article and it all sounds very reasonable.

Why should they be immune? The marines over there have to answer to their own authorities (kinda), so why continue give private security total impunity?

Real question should be why were they immune in the first place?

[kestra]

I fully support the Iraqi government's decision on this.
It's sad that the US government only now is thinking it's a good idea to monitor and control their private armies.

[Savaric]

How come they didn't do it years ago?

I wouldn't blame Blackwater for using excessive force at times. In case nobody has noticed the wonderful land of Iraq isn't very friendly. Particularly if you're an American or working for the future of Iraq. Of course having my corpse dragged through the streets doesn't sound too appealing either while a mob of the people I'm trying to help smile and cheer.

I respect Iraq's decision. I just wish the pricks would get their shit together and make their country work.

[Rilthyn]

Originally posted by kestra
I fully support the Iraqi government's decision on this.
It's sad that the US government only now is thinking it's a good idea to monitor and control their private armies.

Thank god, thought I had to flame you for a second.

Agree totally.

[Kravenar]

I totally agree, although can see what I think Savaric was alluding to.

Lets wait for the first case where a western company is providing security and requests for a car to stop, and it doesn't. They provide whatever normal warnings they do and it continues, so they decide it must be a bomber and they open fire and kill the occupants. (Better them than me?!?) Post analysis they find the folks where unarmed civilians who posed no real threat - do the shooters then get charged with murder? I'd hate to be a westerner in an Iraqi jail.....

Of course they shouldn't have (ever had) outright immunity, thats just insane, but I'd like to see how the law will be applied. You couldn't pay me enough to be a contractor over there to start with, but this looks like their "exposure" just got higher.

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by kravenar
... requests for a car to stop, and it doesn't. They provide whatever normal warnings they do and it continues, so they decide it must be a bomber and they open fire and kill the occupants. (Better them than me?!?) Post analysis they find the folks where unarmed civilians who posed no real threat...

If it's as clear-cut as that, then the only possibility is that there was a total failure of communication (eg language barrier or whatever), so the occupants didn't know they were being warned to stop. Otherwise, I can't honestly believe that they pose no threat. Why would you ignore warnings to stop, from people who have the ability to kill you? That says, to me, that they either have intent to do something, or else they're just stupid. If you break a jewelry shop window, then run in with a sock over your head and start rummaging around, you MIGHT be just trying to retrieve the cricket ball you accidentally sent through the window; but if a security guard tells you to stop and you don't, then would you blame him for taking action? I certainly wouldn't. Now, things may be somewhat different in volatile Iraq, but if anything, I'd say that physical weaponry is _more_ worthy of respect there than it is here. Don't be a fool around people who can kill you.

[Malacasta]

Originally posted by Rosuav
If it's as clear-cut as that, then the only possibility is that there was a total failure of communication (eg language barrier or whatever), so the occupants didn't know they were being warned to stop. Otherwise, I can't honestly believe that they pose no threat. Why would you ignore warnings to stop, from people who have the ability to kill you? That says, to me, that they either have intent to do something, or else they're just stupid. If you break a jewelry shop window, then run in with a sock over your head and start rummaging around, you MIGHT be just trying to retrieve the cricket ball you accidentally sent through the window; but if a security guard tells you to stop and you don't, then would you blame him for taking action? I certainly wouldn't. Now, things may be somewhat different in volatile Iraq, but if anything, I'd say that physical weaponry is _more_ worthy of respect there than it is here. Don't be a fool around people who can kill you.

It is my understanding that in the case where two women were shot dead recently at a checkpoint by blackwater, that the driver accelerated in panic. FWIW, I think that it's entirely likely that people could fuck up in terror when folks aim guns at them.

Also, I don't think your analogy is at all appropriate. It's completely insulting and offensive to compare innocent civilians driving in their own country who get shot by mercenaries, to robbers in jewelry stores. You do understand just how serious the complaints are against some of these companies, don't you?

[Jidoe]

Originally posted by Rosuav
Why would you ignore warnings to stop, from people who have the ability to kill you? That says, to me, that they either have intent to do something, or else they're just stupid.

In addition to what Mala wrote, which I agree to completely - guns freak the shit out of some people. I once had a visitor from abroad who was very scared his first few days here and when I asked him what's up, he asked me if I realize there are so many armed people in the street, and you know what? I don't even notice it, I just don't see it, the firearms are invisible to me because I'm used to it, but for other people it can be really disturbing. Now you could say that the Iraqi people are used to firearms, which might be true, but you ought to remember there are many deserted places there where they don't know what Al-Qaeda or Americans are.

Furthurmore, if someone is acting stupidly, or is in fact, stupid, it still doesn't give you the warranty to kill them, even if you really want to and feel they completely earned it.

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Malacasta
... compare innocent civilians driving in their own country who get shot by mercenaries, to robbers in jewelry stores.

And yet, it's not always easy to tell. I'm not saying it's right to kill them - just that it's understandable why it might happen.

But true. Guns being visible can change the situation a lot.