Patriots Caught Cheating

[Aristotle]

I posted this in the NFL meta thread, but now it seems to need its own thread.

Goodell determines Pats broke rules by taping Jets' signals

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, according to league sources.

NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.

Goodell is considering severe sanctions, including the possibility of docking the Patriots "multiple draft picks" because it is the competitive violation in the wake of a stern warning to all teams since he became commissioner, the sources said. The Patriots have been suspected in previous incidents.

I want to know how long this has been going on. Previous articles mentioned that there had been complaints in years past.

How large of a factor could this be in the "genius" of Bill Belichik's defensive schemes?

Also:

The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.

What the hell?

Patriots owner Robert Kraft was asked when he expected a verdict, but said those questions had to be directed toward Goodell.

"There is an investigation going on now, and perhaps an adjudication of it, and I think it would be inappropriate at this time to make any comment," Kraft told reporters at a charity appearance Tuesday. "When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things. We understand that.

"We worked very hard to try to put an organization together that we all could be proud of in New England, and we're very proud of the New England Patriots organization and the record that they've established over the last 13 seasons and one game."

Aha. So its all part of the evil right wing conspiracy, huh Hillary?

He better be right, or this claim of being a victim will be especially lame.

[Isaviel]

I can only hope it's not true.

[Aristotle]

For a long, long time, I thought Bill Belichik was awesome. He was a no-nonsense coach. He won through strategy, teamwork, and effort. He didn't tolerate trouble makers. But in the last 2 years, the truth seems to be coming out that he is just a huge ass. His conflict with Eric Mangini was just ridiculous. The annual whining about how everyone writes them off and gives them no chance to win has gotten tiresome. And now this rampant cheating is really the exclamation point.

And then there is his attitude about it all, like people have no business talking about it or asking questions.

Belichick issues apology, says he's spoken with Goodell

His apology was Clintonesque.

New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick apologized to his team on Wednesday and confirmed that he has spoken to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell about his "interpretation" of league rules that ban videotaping of the opposing sideline.

It was not clear what Belichick was apologizing for, and the coach repeatedly refused to elaborate on a one-paragraph statement issued 10 minutes before a regularly scheduled news conference to discuss Sunday night's game against the San Diego Chargers.

"At this point, we have not been notified of the league's ruling," Belichick said in a statement. "Although it remains a league matter, I want to apologize to everyone who has been affected, most of all ownership, staff and players. Following the league's decision, I will have further comment."

Interpretation? What the heck?

Most of all ownership, staff, and players?

Um, most of all you should be apologizing to the teams you cheated against and to the fans of the sport. At least "ownership, staff, and players" benefited from your cheating.

Any questions about the Chargers?" he pleaded in his standard other-things-to-do monotone. "Want to talk about the football game? If not, I think that statement pretty much covers it."

Here's a little clue Billy, cheating on the scale you are accused of is a heck of a lot more serious and important than your comparatively trivial game against the Chargers. So stuff the attitude.

One of the reader comments to that part was great:

BB: "Does anyone want to talk about the game?"


Reporter: "Is it going to be harder to score without knowing San Diego's signals?"

Owned.

I actually hope these allegations are false. I hope there are not people in the NFL cheating this brazenly.

But even if they are false, BB's attitude is ridiculous and bogus. At the very least, there is reason to be concerned and reason for him to acknowledge the severity of this.

[Wrent]

I know for fact that picking up signals across the field is a massive help... Also, it is a massive pain in the ass sometimes.

Just knowing when a corner blitz or line stunt is coming is big, let alone knowing coverages etc.


Now, I also think that trying to do that is extremely common. Even at lower levels, you can easily have two or three 'sets' of signals for important plays, coverages, blitz, stunts, whatever.

As a coach, I know someone across the field has their eyes on me, is listening to me yell instructions, trying to find any way to pick up on tendencies or calls or signals. When I've found the other team truly having picked up a few signs.
I use it to my advantage. I let them see me and think one thing is happening, but had the real defense or play run in by a sub.

One - you make them pay for it. Two - they likely back off that tactic for a bit or second guess whether they picked up a signal or not .. .


It is going to happen. But, I'm in total agreement is that you shouldn't be allowed to video tape and spend 20 minutes deciphering nearly two quarters of play/signals to review during half time. If you're intuitive and brilliant enough to do it on the fly during play, it's a tactic. Other team needs better signals if they're so easily dissected. If you tape it, it's cheating.

[vin]

Okay, now they have been found guilty. What is an appropriate penalty? I think the 'experts' expect them to lose draft picks and probably get a substantial fine. Is that enough? Is it too harsh? How many draft picks do they forfeit? I've even heard some people say that they think the Pats should forfeit the game. What's the 'right' punishment?

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Wrent

It is going to happen. But, I'm in total agreement is that you shouldn't be allowed to video tape and spend 20 minutes deciphering nearly two quarters of play/signals to review during half time. If you're intuitive and brilliant enough to do it on the fly during play, it's a tactic. Other team needs better signals if they're so easily dissected. If you tape it, it's cheating.

Exactly. Anything done in plain view, that is seen by the actual coaches or players on the field is totally fine. That is part of the game.

Taping it to review it at the half, or to review it for weeks or months for the next time you play them, that is just massively over the line.

The fact that the Patriots have apparently been doing this for YEARS makes me wonder if they have a library of data stored up with signals deciphered in advance - just like any other elements of a scouting report.

To answer Vin:

I keep hearing it will be draft picks. That seems like a lame punishment. It doesn't rectify the situation, and it doesn't punish the people involved.

1) I don't understand how they can possibly leave the result of that game intact. That should be the first thing they do is change the result. If you get caught cheating, then you forfeit the game. That is basic logic.

2) Belichik is responsible. He should be fined and suspended. Depending on how serious this is, and how many other times they have been caught, I would say at least 4-6 games. During that time he should be completely forbidden from Patriot facilities or from contacting any players, staff, coaches, etc.

3) The owner should be fined, and fined BIG.

4) Draft picks... Yeah, ok, but honestly this punishes the fans more than the people who cheated. If you hose a team out of draft picks, you are hurting it for future years. That just isn't fair to the fans imho.

[Wrent]

I massively doubt a forfeit will be declared. It just will not happen. There will be multiple fines to BB or the coach caught and the franchise, possible the owner as well. They will lose a few draft picks or have their picks penalized somehow. (all guesstimates).


I'm a little ... disgusted by the 'tattle-tale' way that it was caught, too (Not that I condone the taping at all). I think more than the Pats do or have done this. I would be supremely shocked if no other teams have been doing the same. IMO, if this dude said "I used to do it for him", he should get fined and possibly suspended too.

[Darion]

Unless it is determined that the cameraman was transmitting real-time and the information gathered was immediately valuable, the result of the game is not in question. Fandom aside, there is just no way that the game will be judged a loss after the fact. If it does, I will be shocked. I seriously doubt that they will reverse the result AND fine the owner AND Belichick AND snatch some draft picks AND suspend him. One or two of these will probably occur (not including the reversal, which won't), but certainly not all.

[Aristotle]

Oh don't think for a second I believe there will be a forfeit. I would be enormously shocked if they did that. I just think it SHOULD be a forfeit if there was cheating going on.

Think about it. In almost every other avenue of life, when someone gets caught cheating the question of whether or not it was determinative is irrelevant. The most basic thing you do when someone cheats is force them to forfeit. This is a pretty basic and standard rule for most games that people play and things that people do in life. For some twisted reason this is rarely done in professional sports. When they find a corked bat, that game should be forfeited. It always shocks me that the rules DON'T call for a forfeit.

I mean that game was an absolute slaughter. I really don't think filming signals determined the result of that game. But that doesn't matter. If you cheat, you forfeit.

If you cheat on a test in school, they don't look at your cheat sheet and only give you a 0 on questions that you had answers to. They give you an outright 0, and may even toss you out of school.

The very first thing that happens when someone gets caught cheating should be a forfeit.

Personally, I think fines for BB and the owner, along with a suspension for BB is the most appropriate punishment since a forfeit is probably not even on the table. Also, whoever was filming should be banned from working in the NFL for some period of time.

I guess draft picks is one of the few areas where the league has nearly autonomous authority, which is why that is the main punishment that is being discussed. But I still don't really like that punishment, for the reasons I mentioned earlier. I really hate punishments that hurt the fans more than the people guilty of cheating.

[Jolen]

I thought teams already taped the game and spent time reviewing this. I remember watching film on other teams when I played foosball. If the signals are being made out in the open and people record this, what is the difference between this and recording the actual game?