Coming to America? What's your sex life like?

[Darion]

Here is my contention: the US is already being granted access to detailed information on EU citizens by the EC. Some of this information is highly personal.

The topic of the thread and several posts insinuate that the US is now screening passengers coming into the country on their sexual preference, favorite color, religion, etcetera, etcetera.

Why are people dodging the issue of the US government’s demand to know the sex life and eating habits of tourists by attacking Kestra for posting instead?

This is precisely why - the US' demand? The information is being willingly given by a European organization.

No one has given an opinion on the EC's collection of such private data except to say that the US is clearly wrong for being given this information. I don't understand how the US is at fault for requesting passenger information that has already been gathered. What is it being used for by the EC? It comes of as rather disingenuous to imply that America is the one behind it all.

[kestra]

It comes of as rather disingenuous to imply that America is the one behind it all.

They are taking part in it, and that's enough!! What the DHS and the EC are subscribing to is wrong, and an invasion of privacy.

[Malacasta]

Originally posted by Darion
(T)he US' demand? The information is being willingly given by a European organization.

I think odds are on that the US made a request was put strongly enough for the EC to comply. If you read the Directive 95/46/EC on the protection of personal data, it’s not a simple thing to just hand this information out:.
http://www.cdt.org/privacy/eudirecti...irective_.html

No one has given an opinion on the EC's collection of such private data…

I am against a body (whether it be the government or a private institution) collecting and collating information about my religion, sex life, financial situation, political views etc. It pisses me off (to understate my opinion) that ‘The Age’ newspaper listed an intelligence file on me on their front page as one (of many hundreds also listed) that were kept on normal people and groups back in the early 90s. I am involved with an organization dedicated to defending citizens from laws that attack our civil rights and right to privacy at the moment, and the left in general has a long history of opposing the gathering of data like this, as do (I assume) right wing libertarian types in the US. For that reason I honestly don’t think we need to preface every argument we engage in with a reiteration our entire belief system and I think it’s fair to assume that there are some things that are just too obvious to mention.

…except to say that the US is clearly wrong for being given this information.

The EC is wrong for giving the US the information especially when they didn’t notify local bodies that have an interest being made aware of the deal.

I don't understand how the US is at fault for requesting passenger information that has already been gathered.

Just because information is available doesn’t mean anyone should have access to it. My doctor has all sorts of information that Joe Blow doesn’t need to know. If the doctor gave it to him when he asked you don’t think he’s got a problem? Why does the US need to know whether you’re a member of a trade union or whether you’re bisexual? What possible value could this have – even in 'the fight against terrorism'.

What is it being used for by the EC

I don’t know, and that’s a serious questions that many Europeans would have. Maybe it’s for medical emergency reasons, maybe it’s so they can gloat about how cosmopolitan they are with their trendy gay, atheist, communist, trade unionist majorities, whatever reason the EU has for having that information though, they didn’t collect it just so they could share it with a third country who has no interest in knowing any of that shit.

It comes of as rather disingenuous to imply that America is the one behind it all.

No one is claiming America is behind it all, that’s just an invention. People are saying it's fucked up that America is going to get this information and hold it for 15 years. Do you think that's fucked up or not? If you think it's fucked up, are you going to do anything about it?

[Gadiantor]

Originally posted by kestra
They are taking part in it, and that's enough!! What the DHS and the EC are subscribing to is wrong, and an invasion of privacy.

DHS is asking for the screenings, but they aren't controlling the information that is on them. As others have pointed out already, you can't blame the US for the content of these screenings. Has DHS actually said they want to know what passengers favorite sexual positions are as a screening mechanism? I didn't see that anywhere. I seriously doubt DHS wants the screenings for that sort of information. Any offense taken should be aimed at the ones who control the screenings and take the information in the first place.

Think of it this way, if you wanted a log of some event one of my characters was at, and I told you I could give it to you, but there was also some other stuff in it would you tell me not to send it to you because it had extra stuff? Probably not, you'd take it and strip out what you didn't want. If what you had to take out happened to be a gnome/scorpien/canis/'mae orgy would that make you a pervert for asking for the log?

[Malacasta]

Your analogy doesn't hold, but if it did I would tell Aristotle and Dalaena that I was sharing a log with someone who had no connection to Threshold and that he was gonna do what he liked with it for 15 years.
I would beat myself up for not telling those at the orgy that I was going to log it and share it with complete strangers.
I would probably be ostracized and nuked within hours. It's a shame that European citizens, the EU and the dude in charge or Data don't have that easy option.

[kestra]

Think of it this way, if you wanted a log of some event one of my characters was at, and I told you I could give it to you, but there was also some other stuff in it would you tell me not to send it to you because it had extra stuff? Probably not, you'd take it and strip out what you didn't want. If what you had to take out happened to be a gnome/scorpien/canis/'mae orgy would that make you a pervert for asking for the log?

Given the current administration's penchant for intelligence distortion, I wouldn't be so willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Go ahead and take their word at face value if you wish, but I for one am much more pessimistic about such an benign position.

[Gadiantor]

Originally posted by kestra
Given the current administration's penchant for intelligence distortion, I wouldn't be so willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Go ahead and take their word at face value if you wish, but I for one am much more pessimistic about such an benign position.

I see. The administration is dishonest, therefore anything the administration does must be dishonest.

I'm biased here. I work for the government and I have played a direct role in catching terrorists. In that capacity I understand the usefulness of some of the information on the screenings. Other information is irrelevant, and would be good only for chuckles among analysts as they sifted through the data. Understanding intimately how this information would be used I can assure you that it isn't being asked for to get the sexual information. To further the point, any analyst would question the honesty of the people giving the information. So, you have information that serves no real purpose that is probably false...

I assure you, the US doesn't care whether you like to take it in the ass or not if you want to visit.

[Darion]

I think odds are on that the US made a request was put strongly enough for the EC to comply.

Starting out with "Possibly, X. Therefore, X" is not particularly heartening.

I am against a body (whether it be the government or a private institution) collecting and collating information about my religion, sex life, financial situation, political views etc.

With you so far.

The EC is wrong for giving the US the information especially when they didn’t notify local bodies that have an interest being made aware of the deal.

Still tracking.

Just because information is available doesn’t mean anyone should have access to it. My doctor has all sorts of information that Joe Blow doesn’t need to know.

Now I don't think we're in the same ballpark. The doctor analogy is flawed out of the gate, given that there is tried and legal precedent for STRICT doctor-patient confidentiality and it is obvious the EC owes no such obligation. On top of that, according to the EC bylaws that you linked earlier in the post, the information has to have been obtained voluntarily.

People are saying it's fucked up that America is going to get this information and hold it for 15 years. Do you think that's fucked up or not?

No. Forget America - how long will the EC hold it? Presumably forever, as I believe that their database will be constantly updated as new information becomes available.

[Darion]

The administration is dishonest, therefore anything the administration does must be dishonest.

Fallacies abound.

[kestra]

I assure you, the US doesn't care whether you like to take it in the ass or not if you want to visit.

well, now I can rest easy......