Thought police arrest kid for wanting to get even

[anthson]

Originally posted by Graeblyn
Knowing this is the case, if a child expresses a desire to get even with some bullies at school, the police are quite right to be concerned.

Concern was fully warranted. There should have been parent-teacher-principal conferences, stern talks with the list of students named, possible rearranging of class schedules, and a memorandum to teachers to keep special attention on this individual. The police had no right to chuck him in jail.

Originally posted by Gromgor
What happens when "get even" turns into: "15 Dead in local High School shootout...news at 11"

The odds are very much against that happening. However, that mentality is what led to this boy being locked up in the first place. The police were scared, the school was scared, and they all knew they'd fry if they did nothing and this kid actually meant to inflict deadly harm. So figuring better safe than sorry, they trumped up charges and incarcerated the poor kid for 20 days for doing nothing more than using two words, "get even," in a sentence. You can't tiptoe on fear through life wondering what if something happens. If that were the case, we'd all be wearing helmets inside our cars and storing all our kitchen knives inside key-locked blade keepers. There's a point where caution turns to paranoia, isn't there?

Originally posted by Graeblyn
It is difficult to even imagine a scenario wherein an adult is legally required to submit to 8 hours of psychological and physical torture by bullies per day five days a week, but this is the sort of experience school is for far too many children ...

... I wish schools were held more accountable for the environment they force on their vulnerable students.

Quoted for Absolute Truthery. Whether you're gay or smart or more/less mature than your peers, school can be a nightmare for kids that are different. People like to forget, the kids that get shot in schools in most cases sowed their own ruin through years of bullying and making others feel absolutely miserable.

[Darion]

People like to forget, the kids that get shot in schools in most cases sowed their own ruin through years of bullying and making others feel absolutely miserable.

Are you serious?

[Gromgor]

Police have to react to these kinds of things as if there is a real and imminent threat as well as by a set minimum/maximum of standards.

Most likely this kid meant nothing serious. He probably in all reality had no actual intentions in the long term to do anything. But police can't decide that. They have to respond as if it is definitely going to happen. Why? Well, they get a lot of hassle for being "overzealous" in cases like this. However they would rather be overzealous 1000 times and right 1 time than underestimate the situation ever.

Take for instance the recent shootings. 30+ dead because the police thought the guy had left the school. Instead of locking everything down they underestimated the situation. 30+ dead because they didn't react in an overzealous manner.

It only takes once for something seriously bad to happen. Police know this and they respond with that mindset. Civilians are given the luxury of second guessing and being armchair generals...or whatever term you would find appropriate for the police.

Just like the incident with the kid riding his motorized bike on the sidewalk who got arrested...the police responded correctly to the situation.

As is my opinion with the military, until you're there, you have no real basis for understanding the hows and whys. A lot of people don't understand such things because it would hurt their precious little views of the world and they might not get any more Carebear hugs if they do.

[Gromgor]

Originally posted by Darion
Are you serious?

Yeah, umm...I second this question.

[anthson]

Originally posted by Gromgor
Take for instance the recent shootings. 30+ dead because the police thought the guy had left the school. Instead of locking everything down they underestimated the situation. 30+ dead because they didn't react in an overzealous manner.

So your comparison is not locking down the school after someone got shot to death and incarcerating a kid for using the words "get even." I see. Also, how is locking down a school in such a situation overzealous in the slightest?

Originally posted by Darion
Are you serious?

Do you honestly think I'm joking?

[Graeblyn]

Originally posted by anthson
Concern was fully warranted. There should have been parent-teacher-principal conferences, stern talks with the list of students named, possible rearranging of class schedules, and a memorandum to teachers to keep special attention on this individual. The police had no right to chuck him in jail.

The problem is, it is likely, in fact given the situation arose in the first place it is almost certain, that the school cannot be trusted to handle the situation properly. If the school were taking its responsibility to preserve a nurturing environment for learning, this student would never have been in this predictament in the first place.

Originally posted by anthson

The odds are very much against that happening. However, that mentality is what led to this boy being locked up in the first place. The police were scared, the school was scared, and they all knew they'd fry if they did nothing and this kid actually meant to inflict deadly harm. So figuring better safe than sorry, they trumped up charges and incarcerated the poor kid for 20 days for doing nothing more than using two words, "get even," in a sentence.

Pretty much, yeah Again, though, I can't really blame the police. They only had to get involved because the school has failed to do its job. As ill equipped as the legal system may be to protect this student and the other children, at least SOMEONE is trying to head off a potential tragedy.

Originally posted by anthson

You can't tiptoe on fear through life wondering what if something happens. If that were the case, we'd all be wearing helmets inside our cars and storing all our kitchen knives inside key-locked blade keepers. There's a point where caution turns to paranoia, isn't there?

I suppose so. However, this doesn't seem to be one of those times. Bear in mind that this kid has grown up in an environment of school shootings, zero-tolerance policies, litigiousness, hypersensitivity and the like. He should, and probably does, know better than to say he has a list of people he is going to get even with. Given that, you have to wonder why he would say something like that anyway.

Originally posted by anthson

Quoted for Absolute Truthery. Whether you're gay or smart or more/less mature than your peers, school can be a nightmare for kids that are different. People like to forget, the kids that get shot in schools in most cases sowed their own ruin through years of bullying and making others feel absolutely miserable.

Not every victim of a school shooting is a bully. Plenty of other people get caught in the crossfire, but even if only cruel bullies died, most of them are just immature and are lacking proper adult guidance and supervision (again we come back to the school, and perhaps the parents). It would be a shame to think kids deserve to die just because their parents, schools, and communities are failing them.

[Tharzon]

As is my opinion with the military, until you're there, you have no real basis for understanding the hows and whys. A lot of people don't understand such things because it would hurt their precious little views of the world and they might not get any more Carebear hugs if they do.

My biggest pet peeve in any debate is when someone comes in and decides to insist that "Unless you're in the middle of the situation, and experiencing it first-hand you -don't have the right- to hold an opinion on it" There are so many ways that such a stance is absurd.

People like to forget, the kids that get shot in schools in most cases sowed their own ruin through years of bullying and making others feel absolutely miserable.

Go tell the friends and relatives of the completely innocent bystanders that have been murdered in much larger proportion than the few partciularly repugnant bullies in all of these shootings that actually, their dead friend/child -deserved what they got-
EDIT: Actually no, use the phrase "Sowed their own ruin" it sounds so much more absurd.

It only takes once for something seriously bad to happen.

"I would rather 1000 guilty men go free, than 1 innocent be made to suffer"

Yes, people need to be observant and careful, yes there are often warning signs that present themselves to imply that something bad might possibly happen, but punishing people for something they -might- do but -haven't- is the first step in a -very- slippery slope.

[Darion]

Do you honestly think I'm joking?

Honestly, I think this is one of the stupidest inferences you have ever made. The fact that you take a perverse sort of pride in maintaining this train of thought is disturbing in the extreme. You are blaming the victims of school violence for bringing it on themselves and essentially stating that anyone who does not share their toys deserves to be shot and killed along with whichever innocent bystanders happen to be standing around.

[anthson]

Originally posted by Graeblyn
Not every victim of a school shooting is a bully.

I didn't mean to imply every one of them were. I used the word "most." Having gone over a few of the more infamous school shootings, that seems to be the case when specific kids are targeted. Of course you have situations like where Harris and Klebold killed kids just for being black or Christian. Then there are random mass-shootings by lunatics. These guys are nutters, though, so that's really a different category. I believe Harris and Klebold weren't nuts at all, they were just very evil, twisted sons of bitches, for example.

Originally posted by Darion
Honestly, I think this is one of the stupidest inferences you have ever made. The fact that you take a perverse sort of pride in maintaining this train of thought is disturbing in the extreme. You are blaming the victims of school violence for bringing it on themselves and essentially stating that anyone who does not share their toys deserves to be shot and killed along with whichever innocent bystanders happen to be standing around.

Okay, first off, I was wrong to use the word "most." I should have said that in a lot of cases, the kids being shot or otherwise hurt are guilty of having put the shooter through some kind of torment while in school. This doesn't apply in college shootings because that's an adult atmosphere and people don't get called "four-eyes" or get made fun of because they're fat (at least that's what I hear from everyone I've talked to who's ever gone to college). I made a mistake in the way I worded that at first, so I'll take responsibility for it.

All I'm really trying to say is that kids snap for a reason. Sometimes they're nuts, but I don't think you can blame everything on crazy. You can't possibly think it's just about sharing toys ... there is so much more. When you've got groups of people laughing at you, constantly cracking fat jokes, stealing your stuff and making you run at them for it, pushing you around (literally), throwing food at you in the lunch room, shouting obscenities at you for kicks in the hallways between classes -- then you've got more than just teasing or bullying. You have a group of immature little fucks that are making themselves feel important by twistedly tormenting some little geek, fag, or fat kid for kicks.

When this kid goes through this treatment year after year, he's ignored at home, and lives in a sad little world all alone in his head, his life begins to mean less to him. Maybe he doesn't shower very often. His parents probably never bothered to get him braces. He just sits in his bedroom night after night reading comics, playing video games, surfing porn -- whatever his hands find to do, just so long as it's something that takes him away. Then one day, with no specific reason for it to be that day, he decides he's going to die. He makes for a gun or some crude homemade explosives or whatever else will do the trick. For once in his life, he's in charge. It feels good. The more it feels good, the more he wants to do it. Life gets a bit surreal. He gets to school that day and people die. Why?

If my kids were going to public school, and they're not, I would send them off with a lot of advice. One specific bit would be this: Don't you dare tease or torment anyone for your own personal satisfaction. It might be fun for some time to feed off the weak, but don't be surprised if that kid has enough one day and comes to school aiming a barrel straight at your chest.

Why do you think the government is putting out all kinds of anti-bullying grants and initiatives. My school district down here has hired a person whose job it is specifically to be a bullying counselor. Why do they all of a sudden start caring? I think there's a good reason why. Look, I think I made it clear in the death penalty thread that I don't think people deserve to die even for some pretty sick shit. Logically, I'd never imply those kids at columbine got what they deserved. However, Harris and Klebold did not just shoot random kids entirely. There were some they went after for a specific reason. There are several other cases like that, too.

[anthson]

Also ...

I'd like to apologize for making such a broad statement about the reasons school shooters do what they do. No one asked me to apologize. I just did. I'm of the belief a person's emotions shouldn't guide their logical processes and statements and I let my emotions get the better of me when I said what I did. I figured I should own up. This issue strikes an extreme nerve with me because of my high school experiences, which include being racially and socially profiled by police in a school hoax bombing I had nothing to do with. I was thrown in jail because police thought they had to do something and I was a perfect target. Afterward, the real culprit was caught and I was released from any guilt in the matter, but I still have a deep soft spot when it comes to jailing kids just because they might be a safe bet when it comes to keeping other kids safe. In my case, it was the wrong move because the person responsible was still out there. It affected my life dramatically and still does.

Yeah, I know. Enough of that.