Who is this God guy? (split)

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Maelgrim
I'm sorry Rosuav, but I can't find a single reference to "eternal death" in that context. Source plzthx.

Hrm... actually, on checking, I can't find anything *authoritative* that uses that expression. However, this is probably because all I did was Google, not read through a libraryful of dead-tree volumes.

Look up 2 Thessalonians 1:9 in a few translations, and you'll see the concept of "eternal destruction" or "eternal damnaton". I cannot at this point remember what translation said "eternal death", but I remember the expression coming up somewhere.

[leira]

Originally posted by anthson
You seem to think Leira and Leira alone has the final word and authority over what right and wrong or good and evil happen to be. I can't really prove you wrong. I just have to let that statement stand for what it is.

I somehow doubt I'm alone in the belief that genocide is innately evil, no matter the justification. Heck, Jidoe seemed to agree with me pretty quickly.

I don't believe that I'm the final authority on morality. I do believe however that I'm far better served looking into my own conscience and trying to empathize with other people than I am following a book written a couple thousand years ago, or following an invisible being in the sky that doesn't seem to have directly spoken to anybody in just as long.

I do my best to live by a fairly simple principal. Heck, you can even give the Bible credit for this principal, I don't mind. Do unto others, as you'd have them do unto you. While life is complicated and the principal isn't neccessarily perfect for every situation, it does a pretty good job overall.

[Maelgrim]

Look up 2 Thessalonians 1:9 in a few translations, and you'll see the concept of "eternal destruction"

Yes, destruction. To be destroyed, to cease to be.

Eternal Destruction = To be destroyed forever.

Notice, not to take forever to BE destroyed, but to be annihilated, deleted, wiped, killed, rendered into a sooty smear, and that's the end of it. Forever. You don't carry on, wether in torment or otherwise, that's it for you. Please exit existance on your left, thanks for playing. Your char file's just gotten the big 'nuke -d you'.

It makes more sense when you realize that Paul's referring to the second coming of Christ and the Ressurection. He's making the reference that even though PHYSICAL death has been shared on both sides, the second death, the permanent one, will then take place to those who have not accepted Christ. Notice again, the second death.

To further illustrate, Revelations 13-15. It refers to Death and Hell being cast into the lake of fire. (But NOT BEFORE they TOO give up their dead to the Ressurection.) The word Hell comes from the German/Norwegian Hel meaning the Underworld or Place of the Dead. Death, Mort, Thanatos, Tod, being the first, physical death, is also done away with.

(revalations 21:4) "And he shall wipe away all the tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shalt there be any more pain, for the former things are passed away."

Those who are not found in the Book of Life will also be cast into the lake of fire. BUT! Before you go "Lolxor, u just proved yourself wrong n00b!" The 'Lake of Fire' Translates to "Gehenna", which is reference to the Valley of Hinnom, a site where the Israelites used to dump their trash, then burn it. The term is somewhat like our english phrase 'Throw it out', meaning to dispose of it in a permanent and irrevocable fashion.

Thus, in this context, the lake of fire is referring to the destruction of the unredeemed, not their damnation.

Why go into so much detail? I knew where that line of logic was taking you, so I thought I'd preemptively block it.

[anthson]

Originally posted by Aristotle
Anthson, comments like these just CANNOT HAPPEN.

Someone said some dumb-ass shit. Sorry.

I'm encouraging people to be intellectually honest and not just make a post reciting aloud what they think. What's wrong with that?

Sorry I called people buttfucks. At least I didn't name a name. I tend to be blunt.

I realize there's a certain bite and sharpness to my words, Ari. Sorry if that offends you or others. I will try to eliminate my creative language. Maybe the Hindis are right and I'm George S. Patton reincarnate. At the same time, I'd appreciate it if you'd ask people to attack the person's argument rather than attacking the person themselves. That's all I was trying to say in the post you ... modified.

[Gaviani]

Originally posted by anthson
Someone said some dumb-ass shit. Sorry.

What he fails to mention was that the someone was, in fact, himself.

[anthson]

Way to contribute, Mr. Troll! You are really helping things out.

[Gaviani]

You behave like a condescending, snide asshole, all in the defense of your piss-poor ostensible logic and solipsistic arguments. Jesus Christ, you are the best case for atheism I have ever seen. If you actually represent anything along the lines of an omnipotent God, I hope to that being that He humbles the fuck out of you so you use even the tiniest element of humility when discussing matters of by-and-large faith. I can understand being a dick for secular reasons - hell, I profess such with my behavior - but acting like a tool in the name of a higher power seems like the lowest kind of antisociality, a bizarre, sadistic twist on the simoniac, and you, Anthson, are the most rabid practicioner therein I've ever had the misfortune of seeing.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Gaviani
You behave like a condescending, snide asshole, all in the defense of your piss-poor ostensible logic and solipsistic arguments. Jesus Christ, you are the best case for atheism I have ever seen. If you actually represent anything along the lines of an omnipotent God, I hope to that being that He humbles the fuck out of you so you use even the tiniest element of humility when discussing matters of by-and-large faith. I can understand being a dick for secular reasons - hell, I profess such with my behavior - but acting like a tool in the name of a higher power seems like the lowest kind of antisociality, a bizarre, sadistic twist on the simoniac, and you, Anthson, are the most rabid practicioner therein I've ever had the misfortune of seeing.

Without agreeing or disagreeing with the sentiments above, I have to ask:

How does this help the discussion?