Safety precautions do help!

[Rosuav]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15/man....ap/index.html

Some people balk at wearing a helmet. This guy is probably going to be foremost in promoting their use.

[anthson]

Helmets would save tons of lives and injuries if people would wear them inside their cars, too. Just food for thought

[xaxer]

"The truck wasn't going to stop, Lipscomb said, so he slammed on his brakes, flipping his bike and landing in the street."

how many times have I heard this one before??

The problem isnt the lack of wearing helmets!
its the lack of cagers respecting the rights of bikers
(motorcycles or bicycles) and not pulling out infront of them
or changing lanes into them(while on cell phone)

I can give as many examples of broken necks or other injuries that have been caused by wearing helmets
the media is fast to say whether the rider was wearing a helmet
what they dont point out is that many injuries are not head
but major body trauma.
My accident last year ,where a car changed lanes into me and forced me into a guard rail there was not one scratch on my helmet(which is mandatory here in NV) yet I had major trauma to ribs and knee.

like MADD has changed the view of folks drinking and driving
by putting offenders in PRISON, the laws need to be toughened
for causing accidents with bikes and they will start seeing us and respecting our rights to the road.

Kill a Biker go to prison!!

Its not a right to go without a helmet law-its a right to the freedom to choose!
Let those that ride decide! we dont need big brother
(who has never been on a bike before) tell us what is best .


Loud Pipes save lives!

[Rosuav]

Okay, fine! Make it optional. Xaxer, if you die on a bicycle and you weren't wearing a helmet, that's fine with me. Your choice, your consequences.

I'm not actually advocating making helmets mandatory (they're currently mandatory here in Victoria, but all that means is that those who don't wear them can get booked, it doesn't stop people from not wearing them), I'm advocating their use.

Anth, you have a point there. Racing car drivers wear helmets; some road drivers act as if they're in racing cars. Maybe this could become one of those non-incarceratory punishments? Traffic offense = requirement to wear a helmet while driving, for 1 week or something. Hmm.

[Malacasta]

Here's a link with a wealth of stats and studies regarding bike helmets.

http://www.helmets.org/stats.htm

It's all well and good to argue that a government that legislates that people must wear seat belts in cars, or helmets on bikes is a nanny state, it's a fair point. But when the cost to society in both human and economic terms is so high without these safety measures, then bumper sticker rhetoric sounds a little trite.

As a rule, I'm against legislating on an individual's behavior. I don't think shooting smack should be illegal for example, however I DO think there are significant risks associated with sharing needles and injecting unknown mixes into your veins. The same is true for bike helmets. You don't have to wear them, but you are gambling with your life if you don't.

[Gromgor]

Loud pipes don't save lives. They only make noise...which is projected behind them. In a moving vehicle with the windows up unless the bike is either right on top of you or in front of you, you're still not going to hear it.

Helmets keep your brains from littering the highways my tax dollars were spent to pay for and keep clean. Quit putting your grey matter grafitti on my pristine highways!

[Snrrub]

Originally posted by xaxer
The problem isnt the lack of wearing helmets!
its the lack of cagers respecting the rights of bikers
(motorcycles or bicycles) and not pulling out infront of them
or changing lanes into them(while on cell phone)

Wearing a helmet is a good idea because it offers protection when accidents happen. Your statement above is basically saying, "wearing a helmet won't prevent an accident!". Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Wearing a seatbelt won't prevent an accident, either. They sure are good have on when an accident happens, though.

Originally posted by xaxer
I can give as many examples of broken necks or other injuries that have been caused by wearing helmets

No. You can't. (I wrote a long paragraph on this point, but then decided that this is all that was necessary).

Originally posted by xaxer
My accident last year ,where a car changed lanes into me and forced me into a guard rail there was not one scratch on my helmet(which is mandatory here in NV) yet I had major trauma to ribs and knee.

I'm sorry to hear about your injuries, but this example is pretty much pointless. I've never heard that helmets are supposed to cause the wearer to be invincible. They're supposed to protect the head against impacts. So by saying that a helmet didn't protect you from non-head injuries, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.

As for the libertarian side of the debate, I think that children at least should be forced to wear bike helmets. While I could be convinced otherwise, I think adults should do what they want.

[xaxer]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by xaxer
I can give as many examples of broken necks or other injuries that have been caused by wearing helmets
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No. You can't. (I wrote a long paragraph on this point, but then decided that this is all that was necessary).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Unless I ride at below critical speed (13mph), helmets have a good chance of causing neck injuries, is the trade off

Results (pp. 13-18)
1. Helmets are shown to have no statistically significant effect
on the probability of a fatality given that a motorcycle accident has occurred
This means that based on standard statistical tests
we cannot reject the claim that helmets do not affect the probability
that a rider will survive a motorcycle accident.
2. The major determinants of fatality are the rider's crash speed
(kinetic energy) and blood alcohol level.
3. For the average rider involved in the average accident,
it is found that the probability of death increases from 2.1% to 11.3%
when the rider's blood alcohol level increases from 0.0 to 0.1
(from sober to legally intoxicated in most states).
4. In the same vein, an increase in the crash speed from 40 to 60
mph increases the probability of death from 7.1% to 36.3%
5. It is found that helmets have a statistically significant effect
in reducing head injury severity. We can reject the hypothesis that helmets have no
effect on head injuries in favor of the claim that they reduce head injuries.
6. It is shown that past a critical impact velocity to the helmet
(approximately 13 mph), helmet use has a statistically significant effect
which increases the severity of neck injuries
. Thus we reject the claim that, helmets have no effect on neck injuries in favor
of the claim that, past a critical impact speed, they exacerbate neck injuries.
7. As a result of (5) and (6), we establish that a tradeoff
between head and neck injuries confronts a potential helmet user.
Past a critical impact speed to the helmet (13 mph),
which is likely to occur in real life accident situations helmet use
reduces the severity of head injuries
at the expense of increasing the severity of neck injuries.
8. Further statistical tests reveal the qualitative nature of this tradeoff.
It is shown that an individual who wears a helmet and experiences
an impact velocity to the head greater than 13 mph
may avoid either severe or minor head injuries
and incur either severe or minor neck injuries;
all permutations of the tradeoff are equally likely to occur.


http://www.bikersrights.com/statisti...oldstein2.html
I was beside a woman in a minivan (ON HER CELL PHONE) and she started into my lane I "CRACKED my pipes and she dropped her phone and went back into her lane- yes Loud pipes save lives and I know about dopler effect I also know folks hear me coming home a 1/2 mile away unlike those stealth rice rockets.

Loud pipes saved my life!

[Rosuav]

Haaaaaang on a minute. The original article wasn't about motorbikes. They're a few degrees different. For starters, talking about an increase in crash speed from 40mph to 60 isn't significant (even if you count closing speed, not many pedal bike accidents happen at 60 - in the places where cars and pushbikes coexist at 60mph, they'll generally be going in the same direction). Also, motorbike helmets are of design significantly different from that of pushbike helmets. And finally, the sorts of people who tend to be on motorbikes are quite different from the sort of people who tend to be on pushbikes.

I don't know what your "pipes" are, but (a) it seems to be motorbike-specific - my guess is exhaust pipes; and (b) a motorbike commands a little more attention than does a pushbike. If a car rams a motorbike, both will suffer significant damage. If a car runs over a pushbike, there's a high probability that it'll mangle the bike and only scratch the car's paint. So a simple aural warning is usually enough to make a car back off.

This thread has been completely hijacked. Go ahead, everyone, make me really vitriol-filled posts about politics. Have fun.

[xaxer]

Originally posted by Rosuav
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15/man....ap/index.html

Some people balk at wearing a helmet. This guy is probably going to be foremost in promoting their use.

I will repeat.......

The problem isnt the lack of wearing helmets!
its the lack of cagers respecting the rights of bikers
(motorcycles or bicycles) and not pulling out infront of them
or changing lanes into them(while on cell phone)


its not wearing the helmet, bicycle or motorcycle, that is the problem its the lack of respect for the biker that is the problem.
I am glad this "HIT AND RUN" driver did not kill this guy
but if he hadn't turned infront of him and gave him the right of way as he was supposed to the accident would not have happened at all.

don't blame the biker for not wearing a helmet, or a bright orange vest..or a giant bubble suit.
blame the guy that is causing it by his/her mental idea well its only a bike and Im bigger so too bad.
the drivers license manual says bikes have same right to road as cars