[i]I don't know what would have made a difference for these kids...seems like nothing would've except institution. [/B]
Just like Grom said, what would've helped these kids is early reinforcement and discipline. You cannot wait until a kid is over six feet tall to start telling them what to do in life, then expect them to get it and obey during the most rebellious years of their lives. You have to establish who you are as a parent and who they are as a child while you can still pick that child up and bodily carry them into another room. It begins at day one. Not age one, not age two, not age-when-they-learn-English ... it begins from the moment they're born.

But as for what you do with a six-foot menace right here and now? I'm with Grom. Give me a month with no questions asked and his sorry ass will be back spouting sirs and ma'ams all over the place.