UCLA student tasered by UCPD in campus library

[Quotox]

You have to be kidding to me that this is a big deal. Seriously, I think you people who are bitching about this live in some ivory tower world who don't understand what is going on when a cop has to confront someone.

First, we don't have context to why this begins. I wouldn't take a witnesses word on something like this. Primarily, witnesses are only viewers after the fact. They are, like this video, only paying attention once the events attract attention. This student was informed by officers. I am more confident that a cop, especially in a public place, is not going to escalate without some reason.

Second, tasers are use of less than deadly force. They are typically brought out by law enforcements to prevent the need of escalation and the use of more damaging assaults. Despite the bad press by Tasser over the last 24 months, you look at the studies and the field use and its much better than an officer having to use a baton or raising a weapon.


Third, these aren't rent a cops. These are actual trained police officers. They are actually a specialized subset of officers that were developed after the 1960-70's realizing the need for law enforcement that specializes in life style issues of college campuses.... which despite the bucolic experiences of my alma mater, college campus tend to have higher incidences of crime than most communities. (And no just your boozing tickets) Library's are prime areas for such assaults, and I suspect you can look at the blotter/police report in nearly every major state university and find some theft, assault, etc each year in one its facilities.

Fourth, this guy was asked to comply on at least 10 occasions. He refused to cooperate. I am not sure what else the police are suppose to do. If you have ever baby sat a 5 year old and had them disagree with you, try to pick them up and move them. Now, apply that to 20 year old male who likely weighs between 150-200 lbs. If this person becomes non-cooperative people get very hurt (including himself if he's in restraints or being restrained).

Finally, why would think that this kid is anything but a problem? The LA Times article states they showed up, asked him to leave, he didn't leave by the time they returned, they stopped him, and he refused to stop. It seems to me that if he had any sense, he would have stopped had the officers walk him out, and if there was a problem settle it like an adult by not acting like guys who are doing their job are some sort of fascist regime. Without further information, what I saw was a spoiled kid who thinks the rules don't apply to him--typical adolescent naivety.

[Malacasta]

Regardless of what happened before, this guy was leaving when the recording started. Instead of letting him leave, they tasered him multiple times.
These "trained" officers you so respectfully discuss, totally escalated a situation that was completely under control.
They tasered someone over and over again because he wouldn't stand up after he had just been tasered.
I honestly don't understand how you can defend the behavior of the police in this situation. Are you being partisan?

[Quotox]

You have to be kidding me. I think you've gone to many of your lefty protests to get that the rules don't work that way.

Once the police are engaged, they can't just let someone walk away. You are no longer tresspassing, but what is going on is they see someone who isn't suppose to be there. They let him leave, he doesn't. They now have reason to be concerned because its not just him they are worried about. They have a responsibility to the other students to ensure that uninvited individuals do not pose a risk to the rest of the community.

Second, you are taking the word of a guy who just got tased and is screaming I was just leaving. For all you know, that is not what was going on. This is a guy who is so concerned about making a scene and a statement he screams... This is your patriot act... I mean come on... the thing I'm thinking when I've been on the other end of something with the law is... why the hell am I being fucked with? and how can I end this in my favor? I wouldn't be shocked if what you find out later is the kid said something to the cop that escalated this further before it remotely got to be tassing.

Finally, the report/article has the police asking him to stop. The student doesn't. The police are allowed to stop you in this country and hold you briefly when they have legitamate reason... its called basiclly a "terry-type stop" because of the constituional case its based on (Terry v. Ohio I think is the case. I'm off to dinner so I don't have time to google to double check).

This kids is demonstrating a classic law school case study of a police having that right. They approach him. He fails to produce required ID (This is not a public facility, hence he can just loiter about). They are nice enough to ask him to leave. He fails to do so. They return. They at that point have every right to hold him briefly even if he is leaving. Student fails to comply at that point. The police are now forced to act.

I don't particularly care that the kid is loud and bitchy and bratty. He thinks the rules don't apply. I don't know all the details, and this is crap when it happens, but unless the news reports show that there was some piece of information that isn't in the reports, I can't see how this is their fault for responding to his actions.

[Malacasta]

If what you are saying is correct and the police were entirely within their rights to use force against him (I don't have any idea whether you are correct or not and if you are correct, then that in itself is pretty worrying) you are still justifying the use of multiple taser shots against a non-violent person who is disturbing the peace.
The attack was disproportionate and sadistic just about anyway you look at it – seriously, if you get your rocks off tasing a person lying on the ground, then you need some sort of therapy. If the only way a police officer can deal with a person lying on the ground is to taser them, then the police force needs some new training manuals.

[Kraxe]

The guy's just lucky that it wasn't in the UK. The cops would have chased him down, secured him and then shot him in the head several times. *just in case*

[Rosuav]

Just as a small side point, I don't like the Court of Public Opinion making a judgement on the basis of whatever facts the media may choose to offer. All available information is biased; the key is recognizing those biases, and preferably, getting as much information as possible, from multiple sources.

Xaxer quoted a case in which five members of one team were interviewed by one newspaper team, and then it says "all five said Hale did not pose a threat". So? They probably discussed it all amongst themselves long before the reporter(s) got to them. Are you surprised that five people came to one conclusion? I'm not. Plus, the article started out by giving an opinion ("Police lacked cause to kill suspect"), and naturally no newspaper wants to publish an article that contradicts its title.

I'm not saying that this, or any other, article is necessarily wrong. But I'm not saying it's necessarily right either. I just hate the situations where there's some big court case, and it's decided in the media before it even comes to trial. Or, even worse, where a verdict is passed down, and then some paper runs a poll: "Should so-and-so have been acquitted?" and gets readers to judge the person on the basis of the media. Not that the courts are infallible - but I'd trust a court judgement far more readily than a vox populi one.

[Damieux]

I'm no expert on police procedures or tasers. I also agree that we need the full storty to evaluate the officers' response. It also looked to me like the suspect was intentionally courting an aggressive response from the police.

That said, I seriously doubt that any police procedure permits officers to repeatedly taser a defenseless suspect in order to compel him to stand up and walk out of a library.

I suspect that the proper procedure is to handcuff the suspect, call for additional backup and then slap a resisting arrest count on top of the criminal trespass.

[Aristotle]

I have such a weird perspective on this. When I watched that video, I instantly thought: "Oh man... Thank god I have daughters. Boys are so fucking stupid."

I have no idea who was truly in the wrong. We don't have anywhere near enough information. But that was my immediate reaction.

[Leshrak]

Originally posted by Damieux
I'm no expert on police procedures or tasers. I also agree that we need the full storty to evaluate the officers' response. It also looked to me like the suspect was intentionally courting an aggressive response from the police.

That said, I seriously doubt that any police procedure permits officers to repeatedly taser a defenseless suspect in order to compel him to stand up and walk out of a library.

I suspect that the proper procedure is to handcuff the suspect, call for additional backup and then slap a resisting arrest count on top of the criminal trespass.

This is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make.

I don't disagree with tasering the guy if he's resisting arrest, e.g. if he won't let you handcuff him, but tasering him because he's just not standing up and walking out is way too excessive. Tasering him FIVE + times, -no matter what- verbal abuse he is giving, with one exception: if this kid is violently threatening the cops, then absolutely they should taser him to subdue.

[Wyden]

Am I the only one who thinks it's funny that they tasered his ass to all hell?