Communism - can it work?

[Solmyr]

Ok, I'm back as your friendly moderator with another heated argument-provoking political topic.

Can a communist system work as envisioned by Marx and his contemporaries? My assertion would be, it cannot. Furthermore, I contend that attempting to institute a communist system would inevitably lead to a totalitarian government. Why? Because communism's core idea is equalization of everyone's gains. This equalization cannot be achieved except by enforcing it. And enforcing requires a government able and willing to do so - hence a totalitarian government which operates according to a preconceived notion of what should be done, without any attention given to people who might have different ideas. Without such a government, these ideas could not be enacted in practice. Thus my assertion that establishing a communist system must lead to a totalitarian regime. Naturally, this is quite the opposite of what Marx claimed would occur, and thus his ideology is unworkable in practice.

Thoughts? Vehement disagreements?

[Gadiantor]

Communism is one of those things that is wonderful in theory, but ends up not working out very well in practice. On a small scale (say 200 people) communism can be a very practicle thing. At this scale everyone can know each other and feel a sense of partnership that can make communism work. When you start getting into large scales (entire countries) communism doesn't work because it is very difficult to get everyone to buy into the system and accept it. There is no inherent sense of community or cooperation at that scale. In order for communism to be effective it would have to be implemented in a way that the local government played the predominant role. The other stipulation to it working would be that all of the individuals involved would have to believe in and support the system. This takes a lot of humility, as the individuals would have to put asside some of their personal desires for the good of the whole. The population also has to have tremendous faith in the government, which is a huge obsticle in and of itself.

In short: Communism will only work if you gather together a select population and govern it at the lowest level.

[Barandis]

The problem with communism is a simple one: human nature. For better or for worse (I think for better), there is just too much individuality, pride, and desire for success to allow for successful communism on a grand scale. Few people want to be equal to everyone else...most want to have a chance, at least, to be better.

It's pretty easy to look back on the lessons of prior failures of communism and see that someone is going to try to benefit individually from it (like Communist Party officials in the U.S.S.R., with all of their perks), and that will just bring the entire system down.

[Azyael]

In my younger years, I had always heard that Communism was the 'utopia' society. That, if it could only work, it would be the ideal society.

What a crock of bullshit.

The more I've learned about Communism, the less I like it.

I would -HATE- to live in a society where I was forced to be equal to everyone else in every aspect. A society where I don't have the ability to rise or fall depending on my actions.

IMHO, diversity is the key, not complete equality.

[Solmyr]

Originally posted by Azoryn
In my younger years, I had always heard that Communism was the 'utopia' society. That, if it could only work, it would be the ideal society.

What a crock of bullshit.

One thing you have to give to Communism, it has had an excellent propaganda machine to support it. Its followers are very good at emphasizing the outwardly good parts, like "everyone receives what they require", and cover up the bad parts. That's one reason why communism is still going strong today, despite repeated demonstrations of its failures.

[Aristotle]

No.

Not in the ideal.

Not in theory.

Not in practice.

The very concept of stealing from one person simply because that person is talented or hard working and giving to someone who is lazy or incomptent is not only exceptionally flawed and against human nature, but selfish to the point of evil.

Don't bother responding with "what about helping the sick, the disabled, the mentally ill, etc" because I am specifically not talking about helping the helpless.

I am referring to giving things to people who do not deserve them (i.e. the lazy, who refuse to work simply by choice) simply because the "system" seeks to create absolute equality no matter what the circumstances or the reasons for such inequalities.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Solmyr
That's one reason why communism is still going strong today, despite repeated demonstrations of its failures.

Communism is going strong? Huh? Where?

I mean yeah, a bunch of fruitcake Ivory Tower professors and other clueless folks with their heads in their keisters think it is a nice idea, but it sure isn't actually in USE anywhere in a successful, significant form.

I mean seriously..... Where is communism going strong? Cuba? There's a beautiful test case for a socio-economic-political system, ain't it?

Communism has failed abysmally whenever it has been attempted. Furthermore, a dictatorship has always been required to even put it in place and keep it in place for more than an eyeblink.

Communism is not going strong at all. It has been proven to be a totally flawed idea and will NEVER be the system of government of any successful, free nation.

[Solmyr]

Well, it's not in USE as a system of government, but it is definitely present and working behind the scenes. Perhaps it's not as prevalent in America, but here in Europe many countries are socialist, which is only a step or two away, and most are influenced by the far Left parties (i.e. former communists). And there is definitely a connected network - it's not a conspiracy theory, trust me, I've lived here for twelve years, and I know there are a lot of connections and cooperation with former communist institutions in Russia.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Solmyr
Well, it's not in USE as a system of government, but it is definitely present and working behind the scenes. Perhaps it's not as prevalent in America, but here in Europe many countries are socialist, which is only a step or two away, and most are influenced by the far Left parties (i.e. former communists).

Yeah, and that's working great for them.... NOT. It is always amusing to watch the direct correlation between economic failure and the amount of "socialism/communism" a country lets creep into their economic system. France is damn near an economic depression. That 30 hour work week is killing them.

Originally posted by Solmyr
And there is definitely a connected network - it's not a conspiracy theory, trust me, I've lived here for twelve years, and I know there are a lot of connections and cooperation with former communist institutions in Russia.

No doubt there is. In the USA, all the major peace rallies were organized by blatantly communist organizations (like the Workers of the World Party). It is a shame to see good intentioned people being misused in this manner.

[Solmyr]

Originally posted by Aristotle
Yeah, and that's working great for them.... NOT. It is always amusing to watch the direct correlation between economic failure and the amount of "socialism/communism" a country lets creep into their economic system. France is damn near an economic depression. That 30 hour work week is killing them.

True. Also a major reason why I want to emigrate to the US.