Lokrian, someone who is given a job by someone else who created the job is not being "bilked." For almost every job that exists in this country, some person had to work their ass off and risk their own money to build that business enough that it could support more employees.

Until you stop saying crazy stuff like employees are being "bilked out of a decent wage", you are not participating in a rational discussion.

If you don't like the wage you are earning, start your own business. Its so easy after all, right?

If you save $166 a month ($38 per week) for 41 years, you can retire a millionaire (age 18 to 59 for example). That's it. If you don't smoke, don't drink, and don't have more kids than you can afford, that's a really easy goal to achieve. Heck, you probably only have to do 1 or 2 out of those 3.

The average cost of a pack of cigarettes in the US is $4. If you smoke a pack and a half per day, all you have to do is quit smoking and you can be a millionaire in 41 years.

Originally posted by Lokrian
There is a huge disparity between the wealthiest and the poorest.
That is because there is a huge disparity in how hard people want to work, how much of a priority some people put on their education, the degree to which some people are willing to not give into their vices (smoking, drinking, wantonly impregnating or getting pregnant, etc), how smart people are, how gifted and talented people are, how creative people are, and how productive people are.

Yes, there are people in the US who make a lot more than other people. But guess what: most of these people are also a lot more productive. Sure, some people inherit their wealth or just get lucky, but that is the minority (and since estate taxes are one of the few taxes I think are good, I'm covered there).

Until you are willing to accept that *FACT* of the universe, reality will continue to pass you by.

The very fact that you keep reacting so negatively to my reporting that the bottom 50% is carried by the top 50% is evidence of some SERIOUS denial.

I already said that the people being carried do not have to feel ashamed about this nor does it make them less worthwhile human beings. But to deny they are being carried is just to put one's head in the sand.

They are paying a lower % of taxes than their % of income.

They are collecting the overwhelming majority of government hand outs and welfare.

They benefit enormously from the productivity of others, despite the fact that they are not adding much to the economy or the country.

Thus, they are indeed being carried.

Some people are just incredibly more hard working, talented, and driven than others. A society can choose to either blunt and discourage this, or reward and encourage it. Throughout most of our country's history, we have rewarded it, and the result has been the creation of one of the most amazingly successful countries of all recorded history.

You can NEVER create some nice bell curve where the majority of the populace is clustered in the middle with gradual slopes in the direction of rich and poor. People just are not that similar to each other. The disparity in ability is just too enormous to achieve such a bell curve unless you punitively destroy the cream of the crop. The negative ramifications of doing that are both enormous and obvious.


Originally posted by Lokrian
I don't even know why you feel the thing has been made personal.
Because you specifically asked *ME* if *I* know any poor people (implying I did not, and thus did not know anything about the issue) and specifically accused *ME* of thinking poor people are "horrible people." You made it explicitly personal.


Originally posted by Lokrian
As for your work history, obviously it is something to be proud of. Hell, I wish it had been easier for you. I am arguing for a way forward that would have made it easier for you.
You don't get it. I didn't want an easier way. I was not entitled to an easier way. It would not be efficient to have artificially given me an easier way.

The problem is, most attempts to "give an easier way" that come from the government do the opposite. Also, the wasteful cost of creating this "easier way" makes the reward at the end of all the work less.

Here's an analogy. If it takes 1,000 hours of effort to hook up with Salma Hayek, you can decide whether or not you are willing to put in the work for that reward. Having the government come along and change that to 100 hours, and swap Salma Hayek for Janet Reno is not the kind of help anyone wants or needs.