Originally posted by Aristotle
Ah, the old CEO salaries are the problem canard.
Hehe, touche'.

Originally posted by Aristotle
The $30 million some CEO makes is nothing compared to the billions that the unions bilk.

Furthermore, why should an employee have to sacrifice a percentage of his pay to a union that turns around and donates money to candidates and causes that employee doesn't even support?
Indeed. Wouldn't it have been nice if companies had offered decent living wages without workers having to organize to fight for those rights? But that's what had to happen, and that's the way it is until someone comes up with a better system. It takes money to get things done.

Originally posted by Aristotle
In the United States, unions are just a leech. They are a barrier to healthy functioning of a business. That is a big reason why so many businesses just throw their hands up in disgust and go elsewhere.

It is very easy to demand excessive benefits for employees and then get angry when the jobs go away.

Beggars can't be choosers. (Emphasis added by Lok)If you don't like the terms of employment, work elsewhere. Using non-market means of enforcing artificial controls on an employer is a one way ticket to unemployment (either the business goes under, or it leaves- take your pick).
Here's the part where your argument ceases to make any sense to me whatsoever. You think incorporation, separating the ownership class from responsibility for what their companies do (limiting liability), government protection of a RIGHT for a legal entity that is not even a person to own and manipulate HUGE portions of a national economy, is anything at all other than a non-market manipulation? These are non market manipulations specifically designed to bypass certain problems, spread risk, and enable industry, but they come AT A COST. The cost is the power of the individual to impact the way these organizations operate.

I'm not your beggar, and neither are the thousands of other people on the planet who were not born to feed into an economic system specifically designed to allow a handful of people to control vast amounts of real estate and hardware, things that they themselves never were responsible for creating in the first place, for the sake of efficiency. The workers are every bit as much a part of the success of industrialization and mass production and consumption as the leadership. You can't MAKE thousands and thousands of ANYTHING without a lot of people working together as a team. Period. The end.

Originally posted by Aristotle
The average cost of providing BENEFITS for an employee now exceeds the cost of their wages. That is completely out of whack. No wonder so many companies cannot afford to do business domestically any longer.

It is not a coincidence that the industries with the greatest amount of union control are the industries performing the worst in the US.

Why do you think factory jobs are almost non existent in the US now? Wouldn't it be nice if we still had millions of unskilled jobs that paid $20-50 an hour? That is no longer possible thanks to unions and all the excessive benefits they demand.

The inherent flaw in unionized labor in the modern, industrialized world is that when they "win", the company is forced to close up shop and move away. That is quite a pyrrhic victory.
What excessive benefits? Let's get specific here. You mean horrible things like occasional vacations, health insurance and retirement? Safe working environment? What are we talking about here? Benefits cost more than wages? What does that say about the state of wages? Wages have actually begun to go DOWN lately in some sectors and markets, while we have been in a steady state of inflation since before I was born. You can’t even save money anymore. If you don’t put it safely in the hands of the professional money-grubbing class so that they can get their fair share of your hard earned cash, it loses its value to inflation.

And we are back to talking about the wonderful benefits of third world labor again. I guess the fact that Chinese rural workers are basically contract slaves with no right to even a rudimentary education just sort of bounced right off you the last time we talked about why it is that the third world is so "competitive". Why did we even bother to have a civil war if shooting people or running them down with tanks if they try to get treated like human beings is the way forward?

The problem is that neither Europe nor the third world wants any part of our spoiled elite class. If the U.S. worker stops putting up with it, there is no place left for them to go. I don't fear standing up to the rich at all. The economy will run just fine without funneling obscene resources to a handful of greedy incompetents.

Ever wonder how it is even possible that the top few percent of wage earners pay 30%+ of taxes in the USA? You know significant numbers of studies estimate that the top few percent OWN 90%+ of all there is to own? There are no reliable statistics actually, because guess who doesn't want anyone knowing for sure just how obscene things are to begin with? But, add to these estimates that they also have incomes dozens of times greater than the average, padding their advantage daily. Tell me again how you resent special interests owning the media? How do you propose doing anything about it on 30-50 grand a year? You're getting nowhere fast, fellow.

There are too many resources in the hands of too few people. That’s why politics has gone completely out of the broad middle classes control. The relative comforts of modern life have left people oblivious to the fact that they have NO power anymore. How can the Supreme Court rule that government can take your house , pay whatever they feel is 'fair', and just GIVE it to business? How did we get there?

Because they believe you will never do one damned thing about it, that’s why. They have you afraid that standing up for yourself will cause the world to fly apart at the seems. They’re lyyyyyiiiiiing toooooo yooooooou.