Originally posted by Aristotle
It sounds to me like you are saying that since some people come from crappy countries with horrible conditions, when they show up here they'll take just about anything. Therefore, we should not let anyone come here and work. Is that what you are saying? If not, tell me EXACTLY what you mean rather than just tossing up these apparently random bits of information about bad working conditions in foreign countries.
Not at all. I am saying that it is not exactly doing someone a favor to let them have a choice between working for next to nothing at textiles at home, or else coming here and working for a little more than next to nothing on your cotton farm or plumbing company.

Originally posted by Aristotle
Please keep in mind, if they were at least able to work here LEGALLY instead of illegally, the people employing them would have to comply with the laws of the United States. What makes the illegal immigrant worker impossible to compete against is the fact that on top of their willingness to work harder than local workers, the employer can totally screw them over in pay, overtime, and no benefits at all (since any complaint is met with deportation). If they were working here legally, it would be BETTER for the local workers since they wouldn't have such an impossible standard to compete against for work.
Right, so you are not against our basic worker's rights then.

(Lok asking what specific border policies Ari has in mind)

Originally posted by Aristotle
I am pretty sure I already made this pretty clear. I'm for open borders as far as people being allowed to come here, work, and pay taxes. You can't just come here, and get on the government dole. Frankly, we do too much in the free money department already, but that is another issue.

It is unamerican, in my view, to deny anyone the opportunity to come to America, work, and thrive in the bosom of freedom. Just because they are a few decades or centuries late doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same chance to be an American that the rest of us got.

Most likely, these immigrants are willing to fight and work a lot harder for the privilege of calling themselves Americans than most of our native born citizenry.

Immigrants are what made America great. If we shut them out now, we will fade and decline until we are nothing more than a chapter in the history books.
You made it clear that you want open immigration. You didn't make it clear how you would go about it. This is why I asked specifically about things like worker's visas.

How you are going to go about discerning who is and is not living up to their obligations as an immigrant regarding not going on welfare? What differences if any there should be legally between citizens and immigrants still on work visas trying to become citizens? Should work visas be offered in any large number to people who flatly admit to not wanting to live here permanently? Things like that...

In other words, having made your ultimate goal clear and sold me on it, how were you planning to get there from here without actualy undermining one or the other of your goals - the freedom of immigration or the requirements that people sould live up to certain standards once they get here?