Originally posted by Lokrian
I remember some years back you were not happy with the Chinese government in that you thought it was improper for them to host the Olympics seeing as how they had a bad human rights record.
I still think that. It also has no bearing on this discussion.


Originally posted by Lokrian
If it came to your attention that the real reason people worked that cheap for that level of work was that they were being treated badly in their home country, would that change your attitude towards border policy and work? And, if so, how?
It wouldn't change a thing since I am already well aware of the reasons they come here from Mexico.

Sorry, but this is America, not the old USSR. You are not guaranteed a livelihood. You are given the opportunity to make a livelihood for yourself. If someone else is willing to work for less, for whatever reason, then you have two choices:

1) Work just as hard for the same pay.
2) Find a new line of work.

That's it and that's all. End of list. Expecting to have your job, your level of pay, and your number of hours of work protected or guaranteed by the government is totally inappropriate in our country.

Before you or anyone else gets too disgruntled, there is something very important you have to keep in mind. The whole situation would be remarkably different if immigrants from Mexico (and elsewhere) were allowed to work here LEGALLY rather than illegally.

1) When they work here illegally, employers can very easily pay them less than minimum wage, not pay them overtime, not provide benefits, etc. Those are the things an employer is able to do that screws up the system currently. That is an ABUSE that is only possible under our current immigration policy. If they were here legally, that would not be possible.

RESULT OF THEM WORKING HERE LEGALLY: An American worker would not have to compete against someone willing to work for less than minimum wage, without benefits, who also works overtime without overtime pay.

2) When immigrants work here illegally, they send their pay back to their home country. They do not save it here in a bank. They do not invest it. They do not purchase homes or new cars or appliances or anything else that would benefit our economy. All of their money flows back to Mexico (or their home country) and benefits Mexico's economy. If I recall, money sent back from illegal immigrants in the US is either the #1 or #2 source of income for the entire country of Mexico (the other is oil).

RESULT OF THEM WORKING HERE LEGALLY: They can open bank accounts, get mortgages from banks, buy homes, buy textiles and appliances for their home, save money, invest money, and do everything else that a normal consumer does which benefits our economy enormously.

3) Also, it is my belief that a lot of our language issues would be resolved if more of these immigrants could work here legally. They would feel like their time here was not temporary or transitory, and would be more likely to learn english to become a part of our society.

4) Finally, if they were working here legally, they would be paying taxes which would offset the cost of educating children that are born here, emergency medical care, and other government expenditures.

America is not supposed to be about exclusion. Our nation is supposed to be a "Shining City on a Hill", where people yearning for freedom and opportunity can come and make a life for themselves. Like it says on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

It disgusts me, frankly, that so many people want to draw an imaginary line that says people who got here before X Date are "Americans" and everyone else is a "Foreigner." In my view, anyone who wants to be free and work hard to succeed for themself and their family is an American at heart. If they want to come to America to pursue that success, that does not diminish America, that *IS* America.