Hurricane Katrina response

[Graeblyn]

I wouldn't evacuate without taking my pets with me, unless they were being taken to a seperate shelter at the same time. I think that people who think that is foolish should still respect that mindset, and make provisions for pets, if for no other reason then to save more people who otherwise will not evacuate.

Actually, I think Katrina will result in a general major reform in our disaster planning processes. Sadly, Americans don't seem to summon the will to address problems until after the worst possible consequence of our inaction occurs.

[Gromgor]

Originally posted by Graeblyn
I wouldn't evacuate without taking my pets with me, unless they were being taken to a seperate shelter at the same time. I think that people who think that is foolish should still respect that mindset, and make provisions for pets, if for no other reason then to save more people who otherwise will not evacuate.

Actually, I think Katrina will result in a general major reform in our disaster planning processes. Sadly, Americans don't seem to summon the will to address problems until after the worst possible consequence of our inaction occurs.

While I understand that you love your pets and all that I think this is complete bull shit.

You want to risk rescue workers lives, tax payers dollars, the time involved in dealing with you that could have been spent on people who COULD NOT evacuate all because of your pet?

Fuck that. A dog, cat, hamster, giraffe is absolutely no reason to risk your life and the lives of others as well as all the other resources needed to deal with the result of your refusal to leave them behind. And "should still respect the mindset" is a very egotistical way of seeing the situation. You could die as a result of not leaving. Others could die as a result of your not leaving. Your mindset doesn't mean shit to a flood. It doesn't go from door to door to ask if it should respect you and your neighbors mindsets.

[Aristotle]

The pet issue is a big one, and I am glad someone already raised it.

My personal feeling is that if it is time to evacuate, and you have no means of evacuating yourself, then the pet stays behind. If you are too poor to afford some form of transportation out of town (your own car, a cab, a bus, a bike, heck something), you probably shouldn't be wasting money on a pet anyway.

Most people in your situation, Graeblyn, would and should know to evacuate on their own in advance, when warned about the incoming hurricane, so they can make sure their pet gets evacuated.

I think once the authorities have moved in for MANDATORY evacuating (when they have to evacuate people by force), then it is too late for the pets. At that point, the pets stay behind. That is really sad, but people who own pets should already know that in many things in life, they have extra responsibilities. In a situation like this, that means getting out on your own power before the authorities have to do it forcibly.

[Kyla]

Alright.. On the pet issue.

You all can say I'm crazy, whatever, I'll admit that hehe. But! My dog is like my child. I don't have kids, I have my collie, Charlie. He goes to work with me, runs errands with me, sleeps in my bed, etc. I am lucky in that if something like the hurricane were to happen where I live, I have the money and resources and whatnot to take him and leave the area.

But, I can honestly say, that if I *was* in a situation where I was dirt poor and had Charlie, I would not leave him behind for anything. They would have to drag me out of my house kicking, screaming, biting because it just wouldn't happen. I would rather stay and fend for myself with him (even with the risk of sickness, death, whatever) than leave him behind.

I know I will get completely jumped on for saying this.. but, would you leave your child behind? In *my* mind, Charlie is my child, and I sure wouldn't dream of it.

[Graeblyn]

Originally posted by Kyla
I know I will get completely jumped on for saying this.. but, would you leave your child behind? In *my* mind, Charlie is my child, and I sure wouldn't dream of it.

That's what I was getting at. There are people who may not be able to access a pet friendly place after evacuation. I know from personal experience how hard it is to find a hotel that takes cats, and although I could fly them to relatives, if you followed the coverage leading up to the hurricane, you know that it became impossible to get a flight out very quickly. Moreover, it is quite possible to have the means to care for a pet properly, yet not have the disposable income to suddenly buy a plane ticket or pay for gas to drive across country to relatives. There were little to no options for pet owners, besides leaving their pets alone to die, and for many pet owners, that simply isn't an option. You can say nobody who doesn't have a nest egg saved up for an evacuation emergency should own a pet, or that society shouldn't care about such people, and just write them off as animal loving nuts, but regardless, the fact remains that it would be very simple to address the whole issue by making the shelters more receptive to evacuees with pets (as by the way, some have been), and mobilizing ASPCA and HUMANE Society resources, as by the way, was done, eventually.

Just because someone loves their cat or dog as much as they do their own life, is no reason to let them die in an affluent country with PLENTY of resources to take care of both people and their pets. The proof of this can be seen in how quickly funding was put together for animal charities by animal lovers nationwide, and without compromising at all the donations to other charities.

People no doubt died because they wouldn't abandon their pets. Clearly we can do better, and to refuse to do so, simply because you think poor people shouldn't have pets or because you think people shouldn't love their pets so much reflects a lack of humanity that for the purposes of this argument would be amusingly ironic if it weren't such a tragic issue.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Kyla

I know I will get completely jumped on for saying this.. but, would you leave your child behind? In *my* mind, Charlie is my child, and I sure wouldn't dream of it.

A dog is not a human being. Neither is a cat.

I totally understand the feelings of pet owners. I am an animal lover myself. Heck, we all know that's where my screen name comes from. But an animal is *NOT* a human being. A dog or cat only lives for a few years anyway.

The problem is, these people who stay make it harder for rescue workers and police to maintain order in the city. That means innocent HUMANS lose their lives because of people staying behind with pets. These pet owners who refuse to leave are causing harm to OTHER PEOPLE due to their lack of responsibility and their irrational equating of a human life to an animal life.

If you choose to have a pet, you have taken on a responsibility. That means if there is an evacuation ordered, you better make sure you get YOURSELF and your pet out of town before the authorities have to come and forceably evacuate people. Once it gets to the point where the government is having to force evacuate, the pets should stay behind.

[Katidyd]

but once they have lost most of their belonginsg to the storm their pets are all they have left

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Katidyd
but once they have lost most of their belonginsg to the storm their pets are all they have left

That is pretty irrelevant if their selfishness and irresponsibility cause other people to lose their lives or suffer needlessly.

[Thalia]

There are evacuation shelters in all communities along the Gulf Coast. They are easy to acess. I can't speak for every town, but I know in my hometown you can call and someone will come get you if you need a ride. They are staffed by Red Cross volunteers and have food, water and blankets for all. There is medical care available. You can bring your stuff within reason. For Ivan one lady brought her queen sized matress to a shelter so she could sleep comfortably. You cannot bring your pets.

It's easy to say you will evacuate and it's easy to think you should. It's hard actually doing it. It's not so much about stuff. It's about life. You turn out the lights and you lock the doors and it's kinda scary. You know things will never be the same. You don't know what you will be returning to or when. For some people, it's less scary to face the storm.

We've also been lulled into complacency by decades of weaker storms. Hell, until I had the Gulf in my living room, I didn't know what a storm surge was and I've been through about 15 hurricanes. They never scared me before. Also, in a year's time they had been evacuated for Ivan, for Cindy and Dennis and maybe Matthew (he was kinda wussy, not sure they evacuated). After Dennis, my family collectively said fuck it, we're not leaving again. They were under a mandatory evacuation for Katrina and none of them left.

In Mississippi, with the casinos came workers and retirees who are not locals. They had no clue what Katrina would do. Even hurricane veterans were not expecting a 30 ft surge.

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Aristotle
I totally understand the feelings of pet owners. I am an animal lover myself. Heck, we all know that's where my screen name comes from.

Which leaves me wondering why you had a dog named Aristotle... or was the dog Harry, and you changed that to Ari?

Originally posted by Aristotle
The problem is, these people who stay make it harder for rescue workers and police to maintain order in the city. That means innocent HUMANS lose their lives because of people staying behind with pets. These pet owners who refuse to leave are causing harm to OTHER PEOPLE due to their lack of responsibility and their irrational equating of a human life to an animal life.

If someone's assisting you out, you have two choices: Accept and refuse. Either you accept, which may mean leaving your pet behind, or you refuse. Refusal is rude, and may also result in your death; but if you accept, you accept on their terms.

Originally posted by Aristotle
If you are too poor to afford some form of transportation out of town (your own car, a cab, a bus, a bike, heck something), you probably shouldn't be wasting money on a pet anyway.

Bike? I'm not carrying my family, dog, and memorabilia out of the city on a bike! People might choose not to have a car, but have a pet; nothing wrong with that. Do cabs and buses allow you to take pets?