US Presidential Election 2004

[Jozep]

Hi

I'm not an American, but I find American politics very interesting.

I'm curious as to what people think about the candidates, the issues, and the campaigns.

I expect this to degenerate into a total flamefest - I guess that's ok. It's part of what makes politics so interesting!

Anyway, I have a feeling Bush will win. He is weak in many areas, but definitely has the right stuff when it comes to being as 'War President'. I will not comment on whether the war in Iraq is justified or not, the fact is, there's a war, for good or ill, and it takes a certain type of leader to prevail in war.

Kerry seems like a decent sort who wants to do the right things but he is just lacking the charisma necessary to defeat an incumbent president.

The campaigns so far have gotten mired in the dirty mudslinging games, and have detracted from what should be the issues. Of course, this may just be the fault of the media, maybe the candidates are trying to address the issues, but the coverage would rather focus on bullshit like the Gunboat Vets or Rather's f/u.

Anyway, I'd like to hear what others think. Who do you like? Why? What are the issues that are important to you? To America?

Cheers

[kestra]

Once again, the Democrats have underestimated the Republican machine.
Sadly, the Swiftboat controversy took it's tool, and Kerry is struggling to be noticed again. I don't think Bush's military record will be much of an issue.
One thing I've noticed between the two candidates....Bush keeps hammering home the same message, "I'm a decisive leader, I'm tough on terror, I'll keep you safe". It's pretty much the same thing where ever he goes.
Kerry is more all over the board, trying attacks from various angles, hoping one will stick.(health care, Iraq war, gun control....)
I don't think Bush is strong, decisive, etc....but the technique the repubs are using is having it's intended effect.

A bigger concern, I believe, is the Diebold voting machines being used this time around. I think I read somewhere that the state of California filed a false-claims lawsuit against them.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by kestra
Once again, the Democrats have underestimated the Republican machine.

Agreed. 1 for 1.

Originally posted by kestra
Sadly, the Swiftboat controversy took it's tool, and Kerry is struggling to be noticed again.

Agreed. 2 for 2. But I think it took its toll, rather than its tool.

Originally posted by kestra
I don't think Bush's military record will be much of an issue.

Agreed. 3 for 3. This is largely because Bush never MADE his military record an issue. Nobody is terribly interested in what either man did 30+ years ago when they were teenagers.

Frankly, I'd feel pretty darn pathetic if after 20+ years in the Senate, the only thing I had to be proud of was something I did for 4 months when I was 18 years old.

Kerry's catch-all defense of "I served in Viet Nam" is analogous to a 60 year old, pot bellied, beer swilling loser, sitting on his porch talking about the time he scored 3 touchdowns in a high school football game.

Originally posted by kestra
One thing I've noticed between the two candidates....Bush keeps hammering home the same message, "I'm a decisive leader, I'm tough on terror, I'll keep you safe". It's pretty much the same thing where ever he goes.

Kerry is more all over the board, trying attacks from various angles, hoping one will stick. (health care, Iraq war, gun control....)

Agreed. 4 for 4.

Originally posted by kestra
I don't think Bush is strong, decisive, etc....but the technique the repubs are using is having it's intended effect.

I think he is very strong and decisive. I just don't like a lot of his decisions. Gay Marriage, prescription drugs entitlement program, immigration, the Patriot Act, not repealling the DMCA, the list goes on.

Disagreed. 4 for 5. Though I guess the net effect is about the same as if I'd agreed.

Originally posted by kestra
A bigger concern, I believe, is the Diebold voting machines being used this time around. I think I read somewhere that the state of California filed a false-claims lawsuit against them.

Agreed. 5 for 6.

Any sort of electronic or internet voting needs to be fully open source so everyone knows exactly what is going on behind the scenes, and so security holes can be found and fixed.

Wow. I can't believe I agreed with Kestra on 5 out of 6 points.

[Frobozz]

Living in a heavily democrat city I keep asking the question that no one can seem to answer, is Kerry the best that the Democrats really could come up with? Both Bush and Kerry have come through this city and the suburbs so many times in the last 2 months that it's almost ridiculous, but I've had the opportunity (that I didnt get living in New York) to see how attitudes can change over the course of time.

In July everyone was predicting that Kerry was going to walk away with Ohio and the overall election, but recently he's really done a lot to piss off the ohioan Democrats. He comes out to his events and talks mostly about how Bush is bad and how he [kerry] served in vietnam. No one here cares. Bush comes out to Cleveland, a HUGE democrat city, and what does he do? He goes and hangs out with the Cleveland Browns, invites people to come and have food.. things like that. Every event Bush has had here in Ohio has involved free food, every event Kerry has held involves him bitching about Bush and talking about how he served.

Im surprised at how much this has really grated on the nerves of people here in Ohio, even in Cleveland, the normally staunch supporters of the democratic hopeful are really very wary of supporting him. Now rather than supporting Kerry and faulting Bush people seem more inclined to distance themself from Kerry and hedge towards supporting Bush.

I think what it comes down to in states like Ohio is that Bush portrays himself as more of a normal guy with money, where Kerry pretends that he's a normal guy and that his money is irrelevant.

[Dalaena]

Hmm. That's a very astute observation of the different tactics being used.

Honestly, I really even don't feel like going out to vote this year because I know I'll be voting for the candidate that I dislike less rather than the candidate that I like more. I actually think that's why this election has gotten so ugly. Both sides are trying to convince you to hate the other candidate more than you hate them. The democrats are doing more of that than the republicans, imo, but mostly because there's a lot of Bush hate already in the left. Unfortunately, I bet ta lot of people feel like I do, and that will just cause people not to vote rather than to vote against a person. I'm much more excited about voting FOR a candidate than against a candidate.

Still, I'll end up voting because there was a time that I could not vote even if I wanted to do so. The right to vote is precious to me. I just wish I could be more excited and happier about voting.

[Solmyr]

Originally posted by Aristotle
Kerry's catch-all defense of "I served in Viet Nam" is analogous to a 60 year old, pot bellied, beer swilling loser, sitting on his porch talking about the time he scored 3 touchdowns in a high school football game.

Al Bundy for President!

[Rosuav]

Originally posted by Dalaena
voting for the candidate that I dislike less rather than the candidate that I like more

You know you have a serious problem on your political hands when everyone goes to the polls thinking, "I'm SO glad they can't BOTH win".

*looks back at what he just typed*

You know you have something pretty good on your hands when everyone goes to the polls thinking. But that's different.

[kestra]

as I posted before, Bush keeps on receiting the same mantra:"I'll keep you safe, going into Iraq was the right decision, etc etc....."

And for a while now, it seemed his resolve and unwaivering front seemed to work in his favour. But now I feel this attitude is bordering on either being totally blind and ignorant to the situation in Iraq, and/or he's now come too far to make any kind of acknowledgement of error or mistake; as it would mean losing the election.
Either scenario paints a poor image IMO.

His recent UN speech mentioned how "democracy is on the move" in Iraq, on the same day that Al Qaeda beheaded an American there.
I don't see the wisdom in electing a man for 4 more years for the reasons above, and who can not even mention WMD's or bin Laden.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by kestra
His recent UN speech mentioned how "democracy is on the move" in Iraq, on the same day that Al Qaeda beheaded an American there.

Don't you understand that it is precisely because there is hope for the first time of a democratic Arab nation that these evil Islamic terrorists are resorting to such dramatic barbarism?

This is their desperate attempt to scare spinless Americans into losing their will.

This has nothing to do with George Bush. I could care less if he is President or not. What I care about is that we must not lose our will to fight and win.

You cannot negotiate with these Islamic Jihadists.

You cannot appease them.

You cannot reason with them.

You cannot bargain with them.

You cannot sway them to our side with diplomacy.

They absolutely will not rest until we are either dead or our civilzation broken.

You must find them and kill them before they kill us.

[kshaar]

well, I really really try to keep an open mind every election. I try to ask myself, who the best person is on the most all around issues. I've never been the politics type who follows every single media event and such. I do see quite a bit though. My biggest issue with Kerry, is the flip-flopping. He almost -never- attends senate meetings regarding security. When he did finally decide to attend, he issued supporting statements regarding the looming danger in Iraq (as well as the middle-east in general) and the need for serious and swift intervention due to the threat of WMD's, nuclear development (this included Iran) and the like. Now, he acts like we never should have been there and that Bush is doing things totally wrong.

Anyone who thinks the world is NOT a safer place without the Taliban and Sadam are delusional. These people [Sadam, Usama, Fanaticals] would use any WMD they had to kill thousands. The fanaticals over there need to be dealt with now that we are there. If not, I feel they will be a world-wide threat forever.

I dont think Bush is perfect, no one person is. I do think he is consistent. I would rather have someone consistent, protective, and willing to hold the line long enough to see things to the end. I haven't seen any consistency from Kerry on any issue and that's what scares me about him the most.

Kshaar

PS: I watch alot of news debates and such, but if I got any details above wrong, it wasnt intended as a malicious slam on either candidate. I only wished to put up an opinion as to what I personally look for in candidates.