CBS' Forged National Guard Memos

[Aristotle]

I really dislike both "Vietnam Era" mud campaigns. I wish they'd both go away permanently.

What really ticks me off about the forged document issue right now is that it is yet another blatant and glaring example of the extreme bias of the broadcast media.

They have been absolutely caught red handed and they lack the integrity to admit their error.

Here is a good summary of what happened:

Dan Rather took to the air early last week with new documents that were supposed to prove that Bush was a complete slacker toward the end of his National Guard duty. These documents were supposedly from the private files of Bush's National Guard commander Lt. Col. J.B. Killian. Among other things, these memos were supposed to represent Killian's concern over being pressured by his superior, Col. Walter Staudt, to "sugarcoat" reports of Bush's effectiveness as a National Guard officer. The papers were also supposed to show that Bush was ordered to take a flight physical, but refused or failed to do so.

Virtually within hours of Rather's reports the questions began. The type on those documents simply couldn't have been produced by any typewriter likely to be in the possession of Col. Killian in 1973, the date on the memos. The issue was quickly picked up by talk radio ... and it was on.

CBS, of course, immediately went on the defense. They trusted their source. They trusted the man they had authenticate the documents. The documents were genuine, and that was that.

Well ... things seem to be falling apart for poor, poor pitiful CBS. Let's just look at the high points.

1. Col. Walter Staudt was pressuring Lt. Col. J.B. Killian to "sugarcoat" Bush's proficiency reports. There's just one problem here. Staudt had retired from the National Guard by the time these memos were written. He no longer had any command authority over Killian. Would Killian be writing memos about pressure he was receiving from a National Guard commander who had retired some time before? Or .. did whoever made up these documents fail to check some important dates, like retirement dates. Oh well.

2. CBS had the documents "authenticated" before Dan Rather brought his story to the air. By who? Retired National Guard Maj. General Bobby Hodges, that's who. Rather said that Hodges was "familiar with the documents" and that it took great courage for him to come forward as he did and authenticate him. Well, General Hodges has a different story to tell. Hodges says that yes, CBS did talk to him. According to Hodges a CBS reporter read him extracts from the documents that Killian was supposed to have written. Hodges did tell CBS that he had some conversations with Killian about Bush, but that he never confirmed the authenticity of the documents. What is CBS's response? CBS says that they believed Hodges the first time they talked to him. In other words, he was telling CBS the truth then, but that he is lying now. In other words, when Hodges provides information that hurts Bush, he's telling the truth. When he provides information that might help Bush, he's lying. Hodges, the man CBS referred to as their "trump card," now says that the documents are forgeries.

3. Both J.B. Killian's widow and his son say that the documents obtained by CBS are fakes. But what do they know .... they only knew this man better than anyone else alive.

Now, the latest. All CBS had to do to make the case that these documents were real was to come up with a typewriter capable of producing these documents in 1973. Oh ... and it has to be a typewriter that one could reasonably expect a National Guard Lt. Colonel who doesn't type might have available for his use. So, Saturday night CBS did just that. They came out with a report that the IBM Selectric Composer could produce the type and the effects that were found on Killian's memos. The Boston Globe also reported Saturday that their document expert said that the documents could have been composed on an IBM Selectric Composer which was available at the time the documents were written. U.S. News & World Report is getting in on the action by referring to an "IBM Selectric Composer typewriter which [was] commonly used in 1972.z'

Not so fast. Even though CBS referred to the IBM Selectric Composer as a "typewriter," that's like referring to a Mont Blanc as a "ballpoint." Just do a little Googling with the words "IBM Selectric Composer" and you'll find that it isn't just a "typewriter," it's a typesetting machine. It was used to produce justified camera-ready copy for publications. The price for this machine in the early 1970's was from $3,500 to $4,500 dollars. In 2004 dollars that would be from $16,000 to $22,000. If you want to believe that a National Guard Lt. Col. typed memos in 1973 on a "typewriter" with an equivalent cost of $20,000, you go ahead. You should know, however, that the Air National Guard, then and now, generally receives much of its equipment as hand-me-downs from the Air Force.

Source of Summary: Neal Boortz (libertarian who has called George Bush's administration one of the most corrupt of modern time- obviously not a Bush lover)

[kestra]

given the Bush Administration's idea of proof (WMD, no global warming, documents from Niger), I find their story hard to swallow.
I admit I haven't made my mind up on this issue, but as the man says: We are what we repeatedly do.

[Blog]

Originally posted by kestra
given the Bush Administration's idea of proof (WMD, no global warming, documents from Niger), I find their story hard to swallow.
I admit I haven't made my mind up on this issue, but as the man says: We are what we repeatedly do.

huh? Regardless what you believe about the other stuff, how could you not believe the documents are fake? I know everyone likes to think they're experts in all things, but the actual experts who examine these types of things for a living, testify in court, etc, say no way no how are these authentic.

The whole thing was great entertainment.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by kestra
given the Bush Administration's idea of proof (WMD, no global warming, documents from Niger), I find their story hard to swallow.

Whose story?

Can you stay on topic at all?

What do these forged documents have to do with anything the Bush Administration says, or WMD?

Document experts from all over the country have said these documents were most likely produced on Microsoft Word as there were no typewriters in common use that could produce proportional fonts, curved quotation marks, and a variety of other typesetting features present in those "memos."

The son and widow of the man who supposedly typed the memo say its BS.

Have you followed this story at all?

You prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are totally unreasonable and completely enslaved by moveon.org when you demonstrate such a complete inability to stay in the same zip code as the topic.

Lastly, I would recommend that you read my signature. There is some good advice there.

[kestra]

Like I said, I haven't made up my mind on this issue, nor is this issue finished yet.
My point was, just because this administration says something is so, doesn't make it so.

[Gilgamar]

Originally posted by kestra
Like I said, I haven't made up my mind on this issue, nor is this issue finished yet.
My point was, just because this administration says something is so, doesn't make it so.

How is this issue not finished yet? There is NO WAY that these documents were produced at that time. Who cares if you haven't made up your mind? You don't have to make up your mind. The world will go on spinning whether your mind is made up or not. However, one thing that won't happen is anyone with a shred of common sense would believe that these documents were valid.

[Llywellyn]

Kestra,

This thread is not about whether or not Bush served and if he did did he shirk any duties. This is about whether someone forged documents and then gave them to CBS that put his record in even poorer light.

Yes there are a lot of interesting things on both sides of this, but that is a seperate thread from this one. I think that was what people were trying to say.

Best,
TBML

[Melanchthon]

Originally posted by Llywellyn
This thread is not about whether or not Bush served and if he did did he shirk any duties. This is about whether someone forged documents and then gave them to CBS that put his record in even poorer light.

Well said.

As far as CBS is concerned, they need to realize that you can gain as much or more respect for being honest and mature about your errors as you can for being right in the first place.

[Dorain]

This is so hilariously reminiscent of the New York Times scandal. The CBS poorly, poorly forged docs are Jason Blair and Dan 'Blather' has now dubbed himself Howell Raines. I wonder if his retirement may come abit earlier than the scheduled spring departure. Good riddance.

I had to start a self-imposed boycott on CBS news a number of months prior to the 2000 election. Their blatant bias in the coverage was more than I could stand. How I could have been a faithful watcher of them in the past truly boggles me now. It is quite apparent that left-leaning journalism wasn't working the way they wished, now they are unmitigated soldiers for Terry McAuliffe and the DNC.

The key points that stuck out to me:

CBS deflecting criticisms on the 'superscript' and questionable font by stating that there WAS in fact a typewriter that could produce such. Killian's wife said in an interview that he rarely, if at all used a typewriter. Obviously the man had a secret obsession of cutting-edge typewriter technology and saw it necessary to plunk down approx. the equivalent of 22k in '73. With such a fancy typewriter, along w/the add-on typehead ball w/the superscript, (or whatever it's really called) why would some of his mentions of the 111th fighter squadron be superscripted and others have a space between the 111 and the 'th'?

The PO Box #...... 34567

That Staudt had retired a year and a half prior to the date of this doc.

That Killian's wife and son have serious doubts on the docs authenticity.

CBS could easily clear it up by providing more documents from Killian. I know damn good and well if I had spent that amount of 'cabbage' for a typewriter, that the chances are really good that I typed SOMETHING/ANYTHING else on that particular machine. I'd be willing to bet the farm that this will not be the case.

The whole 'to do' doesn't even pass the smell test. CBS has been working on this story for the past 3 years and all of a sudden 'poof' the 'piece de resistance' immerges??? Fifty days prior to the election? We did go through the same accusations in 2000. As they were in Dubya's prior two runs for Gov. Grasping at straws it seems.

GWB has signed the necessary paperwork to have ALL of his military records be made public, something that JFK has YET to do. Odd that that isn't a cause for concerns or questions w/CBS and their ilk. The Dems had better pray that their fingerprints aren't found on this story. Nov. could quickly go from a close 2000 election to a 72'/84' type landslide.

[Jozep]

I think this story is both funny and sad.

Funny because it shows that when Democrats (or their supporters) try to play dirty, they fuck up miserably and shoot themselves in the foot. This is the type of campaigning strategies the Republiicans do in their sleep. The Democrats should stick to talking about Bush's 4 years as President, and not worry about making up crap to make him look bad.

Sad because this is the state of politics in the USA. Two candidates whose main arguments are who did what 30 years ago. There is so much to talk about, I think it shows that neither candidate really has anything to say.