Eli & Archie Manning's Smart Move

[Aristotle]

The Chargers are fucking idiots. They claim that Rivers was the guy they "really wanted", and yet they won't even accept a contract that pays Rivers *LESS* than what Manning is getting in New York.

I have always supported what the Mannings did because the Chargers are just a piece of shit team with idiotic ownership. This is especially vital for a QB because getting tossed into a meat grinder with a crappy offensive line, a washed up coach, and bad ownership could spell the END of your career.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/traini...ray&id=1856939

The writer in that article made a lot of good points, but this one was really interesting and compelling:

There are few enough times in a pro football player's life when he actually has leverage on his employer that it should never be wasted. Between the embedded media, the non-guaranteed contracts and the ridiculously short career life, football players get the rawest deal of any of the major team sport participants.

[Alydar]

I'm reviving this thread right now because I can't help but laugh at how thigns have turned out. Now I know this thread was written before the NFL season started, but I can't help but ponder if Eli still would rather be in NY than in SD, especially with the way the season has unfolded for both teams. Well Eli got what he wanted on draft day after taking the Chargers hostage, so I guess it does not really matter.

The Chargers are looking really good after the whole Manning debacle. Being 11-3 and the surprise of the NFL, they also nabbed the Giants no.1 next year just to trade two quarterbacks with each other. That no.1 pick is looking increasingly each day like it will be a top 10 pick. The Chargers are definitely the clear winners.

[vin]

Originally posted by Alydar
I'm reviving this thread right now because I can't help but laugh at how thigns have turned out. Now I know this thread was written before the NFL season started, but I can't help but ponder if Eli still would rather be in NY than in SD, especially with the way the season has unfolded for both teams. Well Eli got what he wanted on draft day after taking the Chargers hostage, so I guess it does not really matter.

The Chargers are looking really good after the whole Manning debacle. Being 11-3 and the surprise of the NFL, they also nabbed the Giants no.1 next year just to trade two quarterbacks with each other. That no.1 pick is looking increasingly each day like it will be a top 10 pick. The Chargers are definitely the clear winners.

San Diego is definitely the short term winner, but it's way too early to make a final judgement. If Eli turns out to be anywhere near as good as Payton, I'm sure the Giants will be thrilled with the decision they made.

[Aristotle]

The Chargers also went to the Super Bowl in 1994. That didn't really do much for the franchise.

From Eli's perspective, I'd still rather play for the Giants than the Chargers.

The Giants have won numerous Super Bowls and were in the Super Bowl just 3 years ago.

The fluke season the Chargers are having is really no big deal at this point. If they can string a handful of them together it might mean something.

But honestly, do you think they are going anywhere in the playoffs?

[Alydar]

Originally posted by vin
San Diego is definitely the short term winner, but it's way too early to make a final judgement. If Eli turns out to be anywhere near as good as Payton, I'm sure the Giants will be thrilled with the decision they made.

That's a big IF. I'd definitely put Peyton in the top 5 of all time quarterbacks.

But what I didn't get about the trade was why did they give up the extra first round choice when San Diego had its back up against a wall? The Chargers took a huge gamble drafting Eli, knowing he would not sign with them at all. Why surrender that first knowing that the team has no leverage whatsoever? I mean it was only a swap of two quarterbacks, and frankly I think Phillip Rivers could be just as good as Eli Manning. I mean hell so far Ben Roethlisberger has outdone the both of them.

Simply put bad trade, even if Manning outdoes Rivers in the long-haul.

[Alydar]

Originally posted by Aristotle
The Chargers also went to the Super Bowl in 1994. That didn't really do much for the franchise.

From Eli's perspective, I'd still rather play for the Giants than the Chargers.

The Giants have won numerous Super Bowls and were in the Super Bowl just 3 years ago.

The fluke season the Chargers are having is really no big deal at this point. If they can string a handful of them together it might mean something.

But honestly, do you think they are going anywhere in the playoffs?

Since when has winning two superbowls been considered numerous? Oh yeah and their last Super Bowl win was in 1991.

As for the Chargers they haven't been a moribound franchise for their entire history. They had the great Air Coryell years with one of the best offenses to grace the gridiron. Dan Fouts, Kellen Winslow, Charlie Joiner, etc. Yes the franchise is having a bad spell, not having a playoff appearance in over eight years now, but that's the nature of the NFL. Cincinnati hasn't been to the playoffs for 14 years now. Yet Carson Palmer didn't act like a baby and demand to be traded.

Now yes, if I were Eli I'd prefer to be in New York just because of the greater marketing opportunities. But if his dad and him were worried that he'd get killed playing in SD because of a bad offensive line, well then they were soundly mistaken.

And what is this whole deal with the Chargers having a fluke season? Hey wake up and smell the coffee, the NFL is all about having fluke seasons. Who saw the Panthers going to the Super Bowl and nearly winning it last year after coming off a 1-15 season? Who saw the Patriots coming out of nowhere when a 6th round QB replaced Drew Bledsoe to win the Super Bowl in 2002? Who thought the Steelers would be 13-1 when they put a rookie QB as starter? How did the Ravens win Super Bowl in 2001 with Trent Dilfer as their QB? Who thought a previously awful Rams team would win the Super Bowl in 2000 and end up having one of the best offenses in history? Hey this is the nature of the NFL nowadays, more so with the institution to of a salary cap.

To answer your question, I don't expect the Chargers to go far in the playoffs. However if they do and end up playing in the Super Bowl, I certainly would not be the least bit surprised. Just looking at the recent history of the NFL makes is plausible for the Chargers to make it to the Super Bowl.

[Gadiantor]

Originally posted by Alydar
To answer your question, I don't expect the Chargers to go far in the playoffs. However if they do and end up playing in the Super Bowl, I certainly would not be the least bit surprised. Just looking at the recent history of the NFL makes is plausible for the Chargers to make it to the Super Bowl.

The Chargers have only beaten two teams with winning records at this point in the season. They beat the Jags who are now 8-6 and they split their two games with the Broncos who are also 8-6. The rest of the teams they beat this year are 6-8 at best. They beat a bunch of mediocre teams, which puts them above average...not enough to make it to the SB.

Look at their losses: the Jets, the Broncos, and the Falcons. Add the Colts to that mix after next week and you will clearly see how well they perform against the playoff competition. They are not going to the SB, they have a good shot at the second round of the playoffs, and maybe even a chance to make it to the championship game, but that is even a bit of a stretch.

[Alydar]

Originally posted by Gadiantor
The Chargers have only beaten two teams with winning records at this point in the season. They beat the Jags who are now 8-6 and they split their two games with the Broncos who are also 8-6. The rest of the teams they beat this year are 6-8 at best. They beat a bunch of mediocre teams, which puts them above average...not enough to make it to the SB.

Look at their losses: the Jets, the Broncos, and the Falcons. Add the Colts to that mix after next week and you will clearly see how well they perform against the playoff competition. They are not going to the SB, they have a good shot at the second round of the playoffs, and maybe even a chance to make it to the championship game, but that is even a bit of a stretch.

Ehh... yeah... you know if you read that part of my statement rather than just quoting I did say that I didn't expect them to go to the Super Bowl.

By the way Gad your argument is very weak. Since when does the strength of your opponents factor into a playoff run? So what if the Chargers have beaten only two teams with a winning record?

If you look at the Panthers last year who made it to the Super Bowl, they only beat ONE team with a winning record, the Colts. Furthermore along the way, they lost to the 4-12 Falcons, and the 5-11 Texans, with the other three teams they lost to having winning records. Who have the Chargers lost to? Oh yeah, the 10-4 Jets, the 11-3 Falcons, and the 8-6 Broncos. The Chargers have not lost a game to a team with a losing record.

You have to do better than that Gad. Your argument is moot.

[vin]

Originally posted by Alydar
That's a big IF. I'd definitely put Peyton in the top 5 of all time quarterbacks.

But what I didn't get about the trade was why did they give up the extra first round choice when San Diego had its back up against a wall? The Chargers took a huge gamble drafting Eli, knowing he would not sign with them at all. Why surrender that first knowing that the team has no leverage whatsoever? I mean it was only a swap of two quarterbacks, and frankly I think Phillip Rivers could be just as good as Eli Manning. I mean hell so far Ben Roethlisberger has outdone the both of them.

Simply put bad trade, even if Manning outdoes Rivers in the long-haul.

People in Wisconsin thought Ron Wolf was nuts when he traded a first round pick to get a quarterback by the name of Brett Favre. Everyone asked, why would they give up SO much to get someone that was originally drafted in the second round and couldn't even get off the Atlanta Falcons bench. One popular radio personality went so far as to demand the immediate resignation of Wolf as soon as the trade happened. Any idea who the Falcons picked with that extra 1st round pick? If I remember correctly it was a running back by the name of Tony Smith (a former teammate of Favre at Southern Miss).

So did the Giants make a good deal? Will Eli become the next Brett Favre, or the next Ryan Leaf? It's way to early to tell, but the Giants did what they thought was necessary to get the guy they wanted. You say the Chargers had no leverage, but I totally disagree. Do you honestly think the Giants were the only team that wanted to trade for Eli? I believe the Chargers drafted him with the intention of trading him to the highest bidder all along.

[Aristotle]

The majority of draft picks, even 1st rounders, do not turn out to be quality players.

GMs take gambles because that is the only way to land good players.

This was one of those deals that was good and smart for everyone.

It was smart for the Chargers because they got more than just drafting Phillip Rivers directly.

It was smart for the Giants, because they really wanted Eli and this was the best way to guarantee they would get him. Basically, they gave up the next year's 1st round pick to move up a few spots in the current year for a guy they really thought could be special.

It was smart for Eli Manning, because the Chargers have demonstrated absolutely abysmal team management over the last 20 years and have floundered in or below mediocrity for the majority of that time.

Obviously, if Eli turns out to be a bust and Rivers turns out to be awesome, it makes the Giants look stupid and the Chargers look brilliant. But it is pretty silly to make that call at this point, and it is also pretty silly to argue that the trade did not make sense for all parties at the time it was made.