It's not what you know, but what you can prove!

[Gilgamar]

*gives Kestra a chill-pill and a clue*

[Liathano]

Originally posted by kestra

This administration with all it's inquries, scandals, and commissions, have done nothing to leave me to believe that they
know what they are doing.

last time i checked our presidents were more concerned with the opinions of American citizens and not Canadian ones, so it doesn't really matter if you're convinced or not.

[kestra]

Sadly, Bush pre-emption policies affect the whole world, so I think I do have a right to be concerned.

I find it amazing that some people view the 911 commission with distrust as just a bunch of lawyers and career opportunists; yet are so willing to trust the administration and their supposed altruistic policies of pre-emption and the spread of democracy.

Pre-emption has it's consequences and will not make this world safer. You can't go around invading countries that "could" be a threat and not expect some kind of retaliation.
And the overtone of good vs. evil, is simplistic and is more fitting for fiction novels and fairy tales.

[Serith]

Holy crap.

I have never witnessed anyone's EVERY point being summarily rendered into tiny little useless bloody particles so completely.... and yet you still come back with the bandwagon liberal quote-fragments and step right back up to the plate, to be beaned in the cranium by the fastball of reality.

You need to stop soon, before the democrats with VALID POINTS lynch you.

[kestra]

my points and opinions are valid, and I stick by them.
This administration is the worst in American history.
Pre-emption is a policy that will make the world more dangerous, not safer.

[Quotox]

Originally posted by kestra
I find it amazing that some people view the 911 commission with distrust as just a bunch of lawyers and career opportunists; yet are so willing to trust the administration and their supposed altruistic policies of pre-emption and the spread of democracy.

I am, as well as a dozen people who play this game, a lawyer. These people are not altruistic. The whole composition of the commision is designed with the political reality in mind. That is why the commision was designed with equal representation of both parties. I also wish for you to read the commisioner bios. Not one of the members has not been a large poltiical figure in a recent administration. Furthermore this war on terrorism has spread democracy to two nations that were opressed by nothing other than a fascist regimes. So I'm not sure people are all that silly to think that.

Originally posted by kestra
This administration is the worst in American history.

Lovely hyperbole. And I'll take a chance to demonstrate this one as well. I will sight for you the Harding adminstration who sold large oil stores in the teapot dome scandal. In addition, I will give you Andrew Johnson who succeeded Lincoln after his assination. He was both impeached and threated the newly reunified Union.

I'll also give you a sight that talks about this issue. Opinion Journal (Wall Street Journal's edit page's online sight) recently did this when Reagan passed. I thought it was fun and I am sure when you look at the list, this president addressing a national catastraphy with such commitment to his people will never make that bottom half.

Presidential List

Originally posted by kestra
Pre-emption is a policy that will make the world more dangerous, not safer.

It has not so far. The number of terrorist attacks over the last year are down. I will concede that the number of serious events-- meaning strikes like car bombings near malls or suicice bombers are either slightly up or the same.

However, every day the military men from the Coalition are fighting the terrorist on the ground. Everyday you may here about unforunate sacrifice and death these men make, but you will also how they are taking down the terrorist at a much higher rate. I thank the Lord as I live on Capitol Hill in DC (if there is a major chem or nuke attack on the capitol-- I'm dead) that those men are there.

Finally, you can say your points are valid. But once again, you don't back anything accept your opinion based on inaccurate information.

I did not think you knew about the policy of premption. You were shocked when I pointed out before.

[kestra]

I know when I've been out-debated. There are plenty out there who are opposed to this war who are much more eloquent than I am, and could surely present a better arguement than I.

Having said that, my opinions about this war and this administration have not changed, and I never trusted this administration from day one.
I still believe pre-emption is wrong. Iraq is a mess, and a terrible way to introduce democracy.
Did you know that Bush was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?
Can you really see him along side Mandela, Mother Theresa, and Martin Luther King? Ridiculous.

[Frobozz]

Reading what Kestra keeps putting up is like watching a really gruesome train wreck.

You know you want to look away, but you can't.

[Gilgamar]

Originally posted by kestra
IDid you know that Bush was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?
Can you really see him along side Mandela, Mother Theresa, and Martin Luther King? Ridiculous.

If he has been it should tell you something. The greatest scientific minds in the world see what he has done and recognize it as something worthy of the prestige of being nominated.


Also, guess what. Shit doesn't get fixed by throwing tax dollars to a committee. It gets changed by people going places, kicking ass and making shit work.

We were hit. And we were hit hard. We responded quickly and with overwhelming force. It was EXACTLY what every red-blooded American wanted. We wanted people punished or their attack on us. But what it did was set into motion the gears of change. It opened up to us the possibility of going to war against terrorism. not Al-Queda. While they are stil a large threat they aren't the only threat. But rather than sit back and let others try and blow us up. Instill fear in us. Make us submit to their fanatical will we instead opted to say "Fuck you. we're number one cuz we can be. We're number one cuz we earned it by defeating EVERYTHING we thought was wrong in our lives and you will not be the last thing we fight against."

Quite frankly, the war in Iraq started out as a war against terrorism. But the terrorists who were in power were knocked down. Now, it's a war to rebuild their country with a solid foundation of democracy. That takes years and the first steps are always gonna be brought about through acts of violence. That's just the way of the world. People will only listen to power.

Do you honestly believe that if we said "Oh, Saddam, that's mean. You should hand out daisies instead of body bags!" that he would listen?

That's almost as ridiculous as the mythical "Stress Card".

[kestra]

"If he has been it should tell you something. The greatest scientific minds in the world see what he has done and recognize it as something worthy of the prestige of being nominated."

Actually, only one person nominated Bush.