Ronald Wilson Reagan

[Sioubisae]

Originally posted by Aristotle
Siou, you aren't seeing the point.

I admit that during the 80's up to the mid-90's, I was almost totally in Gay Ghetto and that my views are shaped by the events that hit my community.

Nonetheless, I don't think you all understand what it was like in our community during the late 70's to mid-80's, things like our official greeting turning into "Have you gotten tested lately?" or watching 225 pound men turn into 110 lb weaklings or having a cold and being scared to go outside your door cause you don' t know which of your neighbors might have AIDS and die from germs carried by you.

When the world is crumbling around you, you want someone, especially the leader of your country to acknowledge it.

And sorry, I think the fall of (western) communism had a lot more to do with the ill-picked wars they had, with the arms race, with the corruption in their government, rather than Reagan. But, if we're going to give him that credit, then I get to blame him for tacitly giving the signal it's okay to lock gays up.

[Gadiantor]

Originally posted by Sioubisae
I admit that during the 80's up to the mid-90's, I was almost totally in Gay Ghetto and that my views are shaped by the events that hit my community.

The job of the President isn't to comfort and cater to every group in the nation. There is a huge staff and network of people to handle the various issues that come up. Only the biggest issues get Presidential attention. Just because that was your biggest issue doesn't mean it was the biggest issue for the nation. It is selfish in my opinion to expect the leader of one of the largest nations in the world to address your issue. Sometimes life sucks, and sometimes it sucks alot.

Originally posted by Sioubisae (emphasis added)
And sorry, I think the fall of (western) communism had a lot more to do with the ill-picked wars they had, with the arms race, with the corruption in their government, rather than Reagan. But, if we're going to give him that credit, then I get to blame him for tacitly giving the signal it's okay to lock gays up.

I'm not a huge history buff, but I think Reagan had a small role in the arms race, and in my opinion the arms race was the biggest factor in the fall of communism.

It might be good to move much of this thread to a new thread, as we're horribly off topic now...

[Malacasta]

Federally funded needle exchange programs have significantly reduced the spread of HIV/AIDS without increasing the number of intravenous drug users. Countries which have had a long established NEP have HIV infection rates due to IDU's of less than 8%. Additionally, the cost of supplying a free needle exchange program is significantly less than the life time treatment of a person living with HIV. Of the 849,778 people reported to have HIV/AIDS in the US in 2002, 209,919 were exposed to the virus by intravenous drugs. This is at a minimum 3 times the rate of infection of countries using NEPs.

Countries such as England, the Netherlands and Australia have HIV infection rates at least ten times less than that of the United States. It is telling that these three countries (for which I have included some time line information below) were aggressive in introducing education campaigns (including safe sex, and not just abstinence), control of the blood supply and NEP's very early on. The record shows that public officials in these three countries, and many others, fully recognized the danger that AIDs represented at least as early as 1983.

It is ridiculous to suggest that Reagan and his government were blind to a danger that other western countries were very aware of and actively combating. The Reagan administration either lacked foresight, or was not prepared to risk the political difficulties of supporting safe gay sex and needle exchange programs, positions he was otherwise ideologically opposed.

Australia:
1983: May 17 - Aids is declared a notifiable disease in Victoria
1983: July 12 - Australian Health Minister speaks out against AIDS hysteria
1984:
- Australian Health minister states: "We face one of the most serious public health problems this country has faced since federation…".
- National Advisory Council on AIDS (NACAIDS) is formed.
- Blood Supply Tested for HIV
- Government Education campaign established.
1985:
- End of year saw 173 diagnosed cases
1987:
- Needle Exchange Program established.
- End of year saw 769 reported cases, 417 of these died.
1988:
- Condoms campaign promoted.

England:
1983: High Risk people asked not to donate blood
1984: 108 cases, 46 deaths
1986:
- Feb Needle Exchange Scheme Started.
- Government Education campaign started

Netherlands:
1984: Needle exchange program established

US:
1981: Deaths during year: 128
1982:
- Reports that disease was occurring in Haitians and hemophiliacs.
- A number of AIDS organizations were producing safer sex advice for gay men.
- 452 Cases from 23 states reported to CDC by July
- End of year saw 1285 cases. Deaths during year: 460
1983:
- Reported that Aids could be passed on from men to women
- Officers in SF began wearing rubber gloves.
- End of year saw 3064 cases. Deaths during year: 1505
1984:
- End of year saw 7899 cases. Deaths during year: 3498
1985:
Sep 17th: First mention of Aids by Reagan:
"It is true that some medical sources had said that this cannot be communicated in any way other than the ones we already know and which would not involve a child being in the school. And yet medicine has not come forth unequivocally and said, 'This we know for a fact, that it is safe.'' And until they do, I think we just have to do the best we can with this problem. I can understand both sides of it."
- End of year saw 15,948 cases. Deaths during year: 6792.
1986:
-AZT (a drug developed for cancer) becomes available as treatment for AIDS
- Deaths during year: 12,077
1987:
- Reagan’s first major speech. He states that he would support an education campaign... "as long as they teach that one of the answers to it is abstinence - if you say it's not how you do it, but that you don't do it."
- June - AIDS listed as disease that can exclude people from USA.
- 47022 cases reported. Deaths during year: 16,358
1988:
- May - Launch HIV/AIDS education campaign by Surgeon General C. Everett Koop.
- Congress prohibits the use of federal funds to support Needle Exchange programs.
- Deaths during year: 21,074
1990:
Estimated HIV and Aids cases in the US: 1 million and 200k
Estimated HIV and Aids cases in the World: over 9 million and over 1 million.
2003:
Estimated Aids deaths in the US since 1981: 465,910
Estimated Aids deaths in the world since 1981: 2.18 million

[Serith]

Ronald Reagan must have given my mom cancer, too.

I think it was Reagan's fault I broke my arm in the 4th grade, and I know he is responsible for my appendicitis. I think he broke up me and my first girlfriend, and gave me an F in science class.

[Grantref]

Why is it somehow a horrible, immoral thing to criticise someone just because they are recently dead? I agree that no one should be picketing Regan's funeral or butting in to his loved one's mourning to grill them about the man's AIDS policies. That would be immoral because of the pain it would cause to the people who had a strong personal relationship with the man. However, no matter how much you may respect or even revere him, no one here has a personal relationship with him. This isn't a forum of mourning, not a wake or a memorial. It's a web forum for political discussion, and political discussions get, well, political.

If Siou's criticisms of Regan's policies were valid 1 year ago, when he was alive, or 5 years from now when he's been long dead, they are valid today. If they are invalid, they are not invalid because he's dead but on their own lack of merit. Discuss them on that basis, not on the basis that the recently-dead are somehow above criticism.

[Graeblyn]

Originally posted by kestra
I personally believe it was his hatred of homosexuals as the reason for him not acting sooner.

That's just not true.

In 1977. Anti-gay forces in California pushed what was called, the Briggs Initiative. The proposal would have prevented gay people from teaching in California public schools. Ronald Reagan's public opposition to the Briggs Initiative helped lead to its defeat.

Reagan was the first President to have a gay couple stay as overnight guests in the Lincoln Bedroom.

The reason for him not acting sooner is that it simply wasn't a priority to him. Bear in mind we were ALREADY so far into deficit spending that critics were regularly lambasting the administration.

[Isaviel]

Originally posted by Serith
Ronald Reagan must have given my mom cancer, too.

I think it was Reagan's fault I broke my arm in the 4th grade, and I know he is responsible for my appendicitis. I think he broke up me and my first girlfriend, and gave me an F in science class.

Hear Hear!
Which president should we blame for not telling us the dangerous risks of smoking? Shame on them!


And I would like to add that I will miss Ronald Reagan. He was a great president and just a great person.

Also, I would like to say, Nancy!!! Wow! You are such a strong woman!!! What a caring and loving wife she made. Bless this woman's soul! Alzheimer's is a horrible disease and it just doesn't effect the victim but the love ones too. My best friend's mom died of Alzheimer's very young. She was only in her 50's. She progressively got worse until she couldn't remember how to eat or how to breathe. To have someone that you've loved for so many years just not recognize you has to be horrible.

Bless this poor woman! Our hearts and thoughts are there for her.

[Gadiantor]

Originally posted by Grantref
This isn't a forum of mourning, not a wake or a memorial. It's a web forum for political discussion, and political discussions get, well, political.

This particular thread was obviously not started to debate these sorts of things. It is in the political section because he is a political figure. It would have been better to start a seperate thread. I know when I pulled up the thread I really didn't expect or want to read negative things about Reagan. It is typically considered rude to speak ill of the recently departed, but it is even more so to do it among those trying to focus on the positive things.

[Isaviel]

Originally posted by Xar
As you probably read on the news, Ronald Reagan died from complications with pneumonia at a good age of 93 today. I just wanted to start a thread in honor of him, since likely many of you grew up and went through interesting times with him in presidency. So hats off to a great president, he was an awesome american.

Originally posted by Gadiantor
This particular thread was obviously not started to debate these sorts of things. It is in the political section because he is a political figure. It would have been better to start a seperate thread. I know when I pulled up the thread I really didn't expect or want to read negative things about Reagan. It is typically considered rude to speak ill of the recently departed, but it is even more so to do it among those trying to focus on the positive things.[/B]

Thank you! I think the other stuff should be moved to a new thread.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Graeblyn
That's just not true.

In 1977. Anti-gay forces in California pushed what was called, the Briggs Initiative. The proposal would have prevented gay people from teaching in California public schools. Ronald Reagan's public opposition to the Briggs Initiative helped lead to its defeat.

Reagan was the first President to have a gay couple stay as overnight guests in the Lincoln Bedroom.

The reason for him not acting sooner is that it simply wasn't a priority to him. Bear in mind we were ALREADY so far into deficit spending that critics were regularly lambasting the administration.

Thank you Graeblyn, for being the voice of reason in this thread.