Gay Marriages

[Frobozz]

Ok Vertas,

I have to first say that the link listing a number of the old testemant laws was asbolutely hysterical. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time, and even though I was baptized catholic I do tend to point out the absurdity of a number of the "laws" to people that often present themselves to be fundemental christians or jews.

With that being said Im going to try to express a view on the gay vs straight marriage issue. It's not necessarily my view, more of a clinical and objective view. (I would state mine, but Im in the library right now studying for my torts law final and really dont have that much time to ramble on.)

Anyways, marriage can be taken two ways in this country - religious or legal. You brought up a predominantely legal focus upon it, so we will stay there!

IS banning homosexual couples from marriage unconstitutional? Probably not, but it does depend. It seems to be the case that the constitution allows indidivual statues to regulate and protect the morality of their citizens (why things like obscenity in pornography laws are constitutional). Since it really has been left to the individual states visa vi the bill of rights, the Supreme Court of the United States may be very cautious about jumping into the situation for a couple of reasons. The first being that they would be entering into a current political issue, something they like to avoid if at all possible (Remember the criticism for Bush v. Gore?). The second being that until state supreme courts have conflicting rules, and the US congress passes a law that contradicts one of those rulings, a homosexual couple might not be able to even get in before the supreme court.

So it really comes down to what the constitutions of each state says. Yes, straight couples are offered more bonuses or benefits when married but is that something that insurance companies and hospitals HAVE to offer to everyone? Im not so sure that it is. Also, does the government have to make all funds and benefits equally available to all groups? Again, Im not so sure that they do. Government quite often gives money to certain groups while taking it from others. Hello Social Security!! It also gives money to minorities while the majority is excluded from touching it.

I will try to finish this later, my study group is here!

[Sier]

Vertas, you do realize most of that site is filled with "What ifs". I could probably make the same arguments and justify murder. I'd say stuff like the article said "How are we supposed to know what the translation said, was the word really supposed to be murder? Killing people is fun, God should allow it, therefor it must be right!" When dealing with heaven in hell most people take the "Better safe than sorry" approach. I certainly would not risk my soul on a limb.

As for the seperation of legal and spiritual marriage, yea I agree. I'm not exactly sure if the marriage would be binding spiritually in the first place, even if you did have a preacher, so I don't really disagree with making it legal. I just disagree with it being scripturally right..It's just obvious, and the entire article was trying to bend the rules.

[Frobozz]

Sier no offense, but I read your last post 5 times and I really couldn't make anything out of it. Could you try to make some sense? I feel like you're just trying to take a pot shot at Vertas for either pushing for homosexual marriages or bringing up a few legitimate points about religion.

Im not sure which though.

[Sier]

I didn't want to make a potshot at anyone. What part do I need to explain better though?

[Grantref]

There are numerous rules in the old testament that we no longer follow and no one argues that those breaking the rules are damned. What makes the rule against Homosexuality special?

[Sier]

Because 2 cities were wiped off the map because of it, and it's also mentioned in the new testement.

[Grantref]

Actually, modern analysis of the text indicates that the crime of the Sodomites was not homosexuality but rather attacking travelers from other tribes. I'll have to search around for a reference, but the homosexuality interpretation is far from etched in stone.

[Sioubisae]

I want the following:

I want that my lover of umpteen years to have my property after I die with little trouble. Without a marriage license, my family can contest any will I make, and legal documents I have drawn up. I foresee much legal woes for my lover in the future cause I come from a old-fashioned Chinese family.

I want that if I or my lover is unemployed, our respective health insurance can cover each other.

I want that if I am disabled in the hospital, my lover can visit me with no hassles, no matter what part of the country or world I'm in. and vice versa if the roles are reversed.

I want that when I go to weddings or any other social functions and introduce her, I can say that she's my wife with the immediate social and political understanding of what a spouse means in this world.

I want that, should we decide to have children, the law will make it just as tough for people to take away my kids as it is for someone who is straight.

I live in the Bay Area cause it's one of the most accepting places in this world that I've found and I've travelled the world.

For your information, I grew up in the church, considered Seminary school and decided to turn my back on organized religion because of what they tell me I am. I accepted Jesus Christ's words as gospel, but the epistles from Paul? They're full of mysoginistic views from a man who never met Christ.

What I want is basic human rights given to all, EXCEPT homosexuals in this country. People ask me why I identify myself first as queer, then a woman, then a Chinese. The reason is, I point out the part of me that is MOST discriminated against first.

[Sier]

Why is Paul of a sudden out of the Apostle club? I was under the impression the Lord came to him in a bright light, and usually when your blinded by heavenly light, have scales put in your eyes, and have the other apostles vouch for you, that pretty much confirms it. Not to mention that Jesus has pretty high standards for who he comes down in bright glory and elects, because hes only done it once. I think people want to kick him out of the apostles merely because they don't -want- to think of him as one, even though the facts make it stand firm.

[Davina]

Out of that whole post, the only thing worth commenting on was Paul?

I don't need a piece of paper to say that I love so and so to everyone I meet. The bonus of having a marriage legal, is all the legal rights that come with it. Which as Sioubisae explained are a lot of really beneficial things to the person you love.