I have trouble actively discussing this topic, but I want to keep track of information related to it, so this thread is my dumping ground for it. Feel free to discuss however. I just may not participate.
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I have trouble actively discussing this topic, but I want to keep track of information related to it, so this thread is my dumping ground for it. Feel free to discuss however. I just may not participate.
Laura Bush: Separating children from their parents at the border ‘breaks my heart’
Quote:
"In the six weeks between April 19 and May 31, the Department of Homeland Security has sent nearly 2,000 children to mass detention centers or foster care. More than 100 of these children are younger than 4 years old. The reason for these separations is a zero-tolerance policy for their parents, who are accused of illegally crossing our borders.
I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart."
Quote:
"Our government should not be in the business of warehousing children in converted box stores or making plans to place them in tent cities in the desert outside of El Paso. These images are eerily reminiscent of the Japanese American internment camps of World War II, now considered to have been one of the most shameful episodes in U.S. history."
'Prison-like' migrant youth shelter is understaffed, unequipped for Trump's 'zero tolerance' policy, insider says
Quote:
Colleagues at a government-contracted shelter in Arizona had a specific request for Antar Davidson when three Brazilian migrant children arrived: “Tell them they can’t hug.”
The siblings — ages 16, 10 and 6 — were distraught after being separated from their parents at the border. The children were “huddled together, tears streaming down their faces,” he said.
Officials had told them their parents were “lost,” which they interpreted to mean dead.
Quote:
The caseload is straining a facility he described as understaffed and unequipped to deal with children experiencing trauma, such as the three Brazilians. During his time at the shelter, children were running away, screaming, throwing furniture and attempting suicide, Davidson said. Several were being monitored this week because they were at risk of running away, self-harm and suicide, records show.
https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/st...54185276735488
<hr>Quote:
John McCain:
The administration’s current family separation policy is an affront to the decency of the American people, and contrary to principles and values upon which our nation was founded. The administration has the power to rescind this policy. It should do so now.
https://twitter.com/politico/status/1008825738194243587
<hr>Quote:
Reporter: Why is the government only releasing images of the boys being held? Where are the girls & toddlers?
Nielsen: I'll look into that
American Academy of Pediatrics president: Trump family separation policy is 'child abuse'
Quote:
Dr. Colleen Kraft in an appearance on CNN described the many ways Trump’s policy emotionally harms children and laid out in detail what she witnessed when she toured an immigration detention center.
“I can’t describe to you the room I was in with the toddlers,” Kraft said. “Normally toddlers are rambunctious and running around. We had one child just screaming and crying, and the others were really silent. And this is not normal activity or brain development with these children.”
Kraft added that the emotional strain the children in these facilities are under produces a condition called “toxic stress” and that it inhibits the development of their brains.
Ted Cruz introduces legislation to keep immigrant families together after they cross the border
Quote:
U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz announced emergency legislation Monday evening to keep immigrant families together after they cross the border into the United States.
...
"All Americans are rightly horrified by the images we are seeing on the news, children in tears pulled away from their mothers and fathers," Cruz wrote in a release. "This must stop. Now. We can end this crisis by passing the legislation I am introducing this week."
We got here because there are few good alternatives. It's a difficult situation and I'm having a tricky time thinking of a good solution on my end.
There are a couple of points to this:
1. Criminal, negligent parents who are hopping the border illegally.
2. As with any criminal, if you punish the parent, you of course have to think of something to do about the children the parent is responsible for.
3. Yes, of course the child is not at fault and should not be punished. At the same time, the parent dragging the child across the border is using this as a playing card.
I don't think there should be any compromise in terms of illegal immigration. If you think an open border policy is a great idea, why do you not leave your door unlocked and open when you go to bed at night? Simple. You don't want someone to break in and steal the items you have earned and paid for, and you do not want your family to be hurt. Why do we secure our border? simple. We don't want someone to break in and take the items we have paid for, and we do not want our families to be hurt. Argue all you wish that this is not an accurate analogy...but it is what it is. A country with no borders is not a country, it is a wilderness. If an immigration "Process" needs to be reworked to make things more straightforward, then focus on that.
That being said, I think the penalty for trespassing into this country should be on par with trespassing in a home that is not yours.
Further following this chain of logic, assuming someone brought their CHILD into my home to help them carry my things out, or proceed to squat on my sofa every night, I would correctly assume that the parent would still need to be punished for the offense. Perhaps doubly so for bringing their kid into this.
What I cannot wrap my mind around is any scenario which does not traumatize the poor kid. The kid will need a place to stay while their criminal parent is taken care of to the scale of the crime. What do you do?
The short term solution is to hold the child until a foster situation is secured...which is what's going on. The correct way to go about this would be to ensure the facility is ready, able, and suited to hold these children. What I DO NOT agree with is the actual facility and living standards being used to hold these children, which are not at fault. Sure, I'll agree with the liberal media on this point.
The monumentally stupid suggestion which is being poked and prodded would be to let the parents stay with the children without any ramification of their actions. Let's not fool ourselves: An influx in population without regulation affects job availability, dollar value, security, etc etc etc... I'm not stupid. I am fully aware why only certain news outlets are covering this one point in immigration, and why they are doing so. I agree with them to an extent, but the agenda is extremely visible.
What I would like to see MORE of is:
1. Liberal media outlets asking why we are not providing more aid to Mexico in an effort to uplift them. We send plenty of business to China, perhaps we should consider raising more tariffs on China, and lowering them for Mexico? Perhaps if Mexico had more and better employment, this would become a nonissue?
2. Conservative media outlets covering more of this instead of ignoring it. This is just as much a problem. I don't see Fox News doing the story enough justice in a more correct light. Yes, I assume "The Hill" and "The LA Times" to proceed and criticize the Republic Administration for any and every decision, but it would be cool to see a "Conservative" outlet take "A Stance" instead of "No Stance". They should at least state "Yea, it's a problem. Probably should take better care of the kids. How can we do it?"
3. Proactive decision making on a personal level. If people have such a problem with how these children are being treated, they should probably consider their stance on "Adoption". We have plenty of kids in our CURRENT system who are in WORSE situations in the foster system. It's easy to watch, criticize, and post sob stories about the kids and proceed to do absolutely nothing about it. How many of us have a spare bedroom in our home, and make an extra $200 a month we can pony up toward raising a kid? Quite a few of us. Do something about it.
4. Both LIBERAL and CONSERVATIVE outlets asking what we can do to improve our immigration policy, such as merit based systems.
What I would like to see LESS of is:
1. Asinine college freshman going on television saying "Yea...should just let everyone in. The problems would work themselves out." No, that's not really how life, economics, security, and charity work.
2. Wild assumptions. These children are not being put into "Conservation camps" forever. Unless a benevolent benefactor steps up and says "Yea, I'll set up a huge facility for these kids, and foot the bill", this is a logistics problem without a really good answer. Quit wildly mashing the "Blame Trump" button.
3. Refusal to blame both sides of the problem. If you raise a stink about this and are not as willing to blame the criminal parents as you are the government who has to hold the children, you are clearly defining that you have an agenda and are pressing this story as a means to an end.
Note: I realize I probably touched on a largely liberal gaming community's sensibilities with a few of my points. I do challenge individuals who post replies to indeed show how we can resolve this situation without giving Criminals leeway to use their kids as hostages.
I disagree with 100% of everything Sier just posted. I'm not going to break it down into detailed analysis that covers everything- it doesn't need it. But I will provide a few specific comments.
1) Comparing immigration policy to locking one's doors at night is the most idiotic, bullshit comparison I have heard yet to justify this horrendous act.
2) A person fleeing the crime lords and corruption of Mexico is NOT some masked burglar trying to break into some house.
3) You don't want somebody to break in and take what we've paid for....translating into you don't want brown people to have your tax dollars via welfare/healthcare/food stamps/etc. Pathetic. It's going to cost more to continue this bullshit than all the tax dollars of all the people on welfare are going to receive, including your good ole fashion, red blooded 'Muricans.
4) By your logic of Trespassing into the US being equivalent of Trespassing into a home - fine - they're guilty of a misdemeanor. You know, like jaywalking, playing your stereo a little too loudly, etc.
5) You have literally justified the destruction of families, and the inhibiting of mental development of children, because a bunch of people want jobs.
6) Fuck the American Dream - that's only for Americans. Good ole fashioned white country boy 'Muricans! Nevermind that we have a big lady on an island that has an open invite inscribed on a plaque saying, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" because god-forbid we be fucking humane towards other people.
7) The justification of ANY of this current policy shows a distinct lack of anything moral, ethical or decent. I can appreciate someone arguing the letter of the law, because laws can be changed. At the end of the day however, when the enforcement of laws results in the mass detention and separation of families, who are coming here because they've heard how much better the US is than the country they're in, then someone, somewhere, has to say "No. I will not enforce this."
I read yesterday that the governor of NC, the state in which I live, called back the 3 National Guard from NC from the border, refusing to allow them to enable it. It's a small step, and while I disagree with much of his politics, he's probably going to get my vote next time around.
This whole situation has spiraled out of control and it needs to end - quickly.
Brown people aren't the enemy. They're not coming here to steal your taxes. Taking children from a parent because that parent wants a better life is cruel.
A. I didn't say I defended the act. The act is a crazy way of going through with current policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad
B. In one example, you are defending your home against intruders which may or may not wish to mean your household harm, take things which aren't theirs, and deprive you of the space you yourself earned. In the other example, you are defending your home against intruders which may or may not wish to mean your household harm, take things which aren't theirs, and deprive you of the space you yourself earned. Yea...no. The example's pretty spot on, apart from one being Micro and one being Macro.
I have serious doubts 100% of immigrants are akin to a burglar trying to break into some house. I also have serious doubts 100% of immigrants are fleeing crime lords of Mexico. What I am 100% sure of, is that SOME of those immigrants ARE crime lords from Mexico. That's why we have vetting processes, and that is why we need to IMPROVE vetting processes. You don't simply take away the process. That's a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad
Protecting tax dollars is only a part of why the border is protected. A small part. It's more difficult to put a price on crime, jobs, tax dollars, living area, resources, etc etc etc....Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad
You're playing word games. Alright then. Let's call it a misdemeanor. Misdemeanors are punished and fined according to the scale and law which was broken. Breaking into a house merits a different punishment than playing a stereo too loud. Glad we cleared that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad
No. The idiots who brought their kids when they committed a crime get a share of the responsibility in damaging their families. Additionally, and I reiterate a third (or forth at this point) time, I am not defending the policy of separating a family from its children. I think I'm allowed to agree with you on that one single point. You should probably stop assuming I'm pro-concentration camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad
Of course the American Dream is not just for Americans. That is why we have laws in place which govern how many immigrants we may allow in. Are you arguing for an open border policy? Because if so, you are suggesting the other existing 194 countries in this world be permitted to all come in simultaneously and settle. Please advise me of how you intend to solve the inevitable logistics issue which would be akin to throwing a nuke into the economy. You may not argue for an open border unless you have an actual plan for how to accommodate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad
Additional note: No known countries have OPEN IMMIGRATION policies, even though they have OPEN BORDERS. Are you suggesting we be the only country to do so? You are aware why this is a bad idea, correct? I was tempted to say "Go find one and live there for a while", but literally every government in the world knows this is a recipe for disaster.
Again - hard to justify concentration camps. Easy to justify *against* an open immigration policy, as it does not exist anywhere else in the world. Additionally, if a particular leader chooses not to enforce a law, well, I can't stop him/her. But I certainly don't have to vote for him/her. :) That's the thing I like sometimes about politics. Bad behavior is *sometimes* rewarded with a spanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad
That governor probably wouldn't stay in office in my state. He also would never get my vote. But you're entitled to yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad
I agree. I agree with the second statement - though the second statement is the inevitable outcome if they are not registered as citizens properly. I agree with the third statement, there has to be a better way to go about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzad