President Obama not born in the US? Is this a scam?

Ok, I saw this today and wow.....

MSNBC's Interview With Obama "Birther Queen" Orly Taitz

The name "Orly" makes me wonder if this is some kind of Borat-style gag on the media.

Putting aside the fact that I think this is either a hoax or just some crazy people... imagine for a moment if it was true.

WOW. This would put the 2000 election to shame as far as the level of political chaos.

Who would become President? I don't think this would be a simple promote the VP thing.

What would happen to executive actions taken by or ordered by Obama? Would they be rescinded?

Man...

I am glad this is almost definitely a hoax, because this would be a disaster if it were true.

I suppose it's fun to imagine all sorts of things are true. Imagine if aliens invaded; Imagine all the people living life in peace... After all, we're fantasy and sci-fi geeks.

I don't know if you want to imagine the same things as the birther movement - because as I said in a previous thread, I think this stuff is really damaging the conservative movement (and rational discourse in general).

Orly's latest bc has torn the movement apart. Conservative blogs like LGF are tearing their hair out in despair and when even a birther supporting site like the freepers are embarrassed and their ranks are split (check out a free republic search on bomford) then I think it's safe to say that you want to run a mile from this shit.

Hoax and scam are pretty generous descriptions of what this is. I prefer "steaming pile of horse shit".

Here's an article that covers it pretty well:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8171314.stm

Or alternatively, check out this Orly Taitz interview:
Colbert pwns Orly

The birther movement is the most clinically insane political phenomenon I've every seen.

Yet another part of one of the largest smear campaigns ever undertaken :o

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Originally posted by Malacasta
I suppose it's fun to imagine all sorts of things are true. Imagine if aliens invaded; Imagine all the people living life in peace... After all, we're fantasy and sci-fi geeks.

I don't know if you want to imagine the same things as the birther movement - because as I said in a previous thread, I think this stuff is really damaging the conservative movement (and rational discourse in general).

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Sorry, but this isn't damaging to conservatives. These people are either:

1) Borat-style hoaxers.

2) Freaks.

3) Correct.

I put those in the order of likelihood. No matter which turns out to be true, none of them hurt the conservatives in the country.

Also, this theoretical situation is nowhere near as crazy as an alien invasion or anything else you compared it to. A lot of parents fudge stuff to make sure their children are considered natural born citizens. People in the military serving in overseas bases, international business people, and simple international travelers etc. have been doing it for decades. A baby gets born out of the country on accident and oops..... whadda ya know.... documents get forged. There are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of "natural born citizens" in the US that have that status because somebody somewhere forged a document when a situation was borderline.

So what happens if some day, one of those people ends up President. Wow. That's a bona fide Constitutional crisis.

I don't think that's the case with Obama, and I sure as hell hope it isn't because it would be a financial disaster for the USA.

I really hope this is a deliberate hoax, because I love seeing the mainstream media get burned. The only reason they are giving the story any attention is because they also think this is embarrassing to conservatives in general, so they are giving it 1,000 times more publicity than it deserves.

If it's a hoax, they've done well at maintaining it, because it's been going since before Obama got elected. It's pretty similar to the "Obama is a Muslim" bit that used to go around, except people are actually trying to waste the court's time on this bullshit story.

I don't think the media are doing it specifically because they think it embarrasses conservatives. I remember the 9/11 conspiracy types getting plenty of media coverage over the years, and that's basically the liberal equivalent of the birthers. If anything, the birthers are getting this coverage because somebody recently noticed what a train wreck Orly Taitz is.

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Originally posted by Aristotle
Sorry, but this isn't damaging to conservatives. These people are either:

1) Borat-style hoaxers.

2) Freaks.

3) Correct.

I put those in the order of likelihood. No matter which turns out to be true, none of them hurt the conservatives in the country.

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This isn't a hoax. These people actually believe, as any reader of the political comments of any major online newspaper in the US can tell you. What may be more frightening is that over 20% of registered Republicans surveyed *believe it's true*.

You can call them freaks, and I'd agree. The problem for the conservatives is that this is a substantial segment of their voting support, and they have repeatedly refused to say that "these people are freaks" for fear of offending them.

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I really hope this is a deliberate hoax, because I love seeing the mainstream media get burned. The only reason they are giving the story any attention is because they also think this is embarrassing to conservatives in general...

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The reason the MSM is covering it is that Fox News commentators and Lou Dobbs have been repeating it and spreading it. There is a substantial market who wants to buy conspiracy theory, so of course there will be sellers.

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Originally posted by Khalid
The reason the MSM is covering it is that Fox News commentators and Lou Dobbs have been repeating it and spreading it. There is a substantial market who wants to buy conspiracy theory, so of course there will be sellers.

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I don't think that Fox news commentators have been repeating it, but in fact have been among those that are debunking it. O'Reilly has addressed the issue several times, calling it "nonsense".

Even Coulter, as a guest on Fox News said the following,

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Every conservative publication dealt with this because it was raised as an issue, and said there's nothing to it...
It's just a few cranks out there.

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This stuff is awesome, just go with it. You can tell by the level of negativity directed at these people that they're on to something.

If you were president, and someone said "Hey, I don't think you're legit, show us your birth certificate to prove you're allowed to hold that office", then why would you not?

1) Because you can't find it
2) Because it would reveal other information that you would rather kept concealed
3) Because of some legal restriction that forbids you.
4) Because it doesn't exist and you're just faking it

(Any other reasons?)

If Obama's original birth certificate can't be found, that just means things have been a bit sloppy... not surprising, although I'd expect both the government and individuals to take good care of primary documents like that.

He's already revealed the printout, so I don't know what else there could be that he would be ashamed of. But it's possible there's something.

If there's a legal restriction on publishing that information, someone would have said so by now.

So we're left having to seriously wonder if the silence is because there really is no birth certificate. (Of course, absence of the document doesn't prove he was born in Kenya, but it does make it hard to prove he wasn't.) With the legitimacy of his office at stake, I would have thought he could come up with the goods. So why hasn't he? There must be a reason.

Perhaps Obama is just tired of pandering to these people. He gave them proof, and they asked for more proof. If he was to give them more proof, they would again demand more. Obama is accused of being a muslim, non-american, communist, and even the anti-christ. These people are sure in their beliefs. They have no evidence to support them, and they ignore evidence that they are wrong. At some point he just needs to put his foot down and stop answering their ludicrous demands.

How dare you claim he is not the anti-christ! Give me proof he isn't!

I'm not surprised this is becoming such a big issue! Anti-Obama conservatives have been struggling to make a scandal stick to him since he starting running for President.
The state of Hawaii has yet again declared Obama a US citizen, but for some it apparently doesn't count: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/...th_certificate

I for one am glad that President Obama has stayed quiet about it. The whole thing is ridiculous to me.

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Originally posted by leira
Perhaps Obama is just tired of pandering to these people. He gave them proof, and they asked for more proof. If he was to give them more proof, they would again demand more.

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Good point. Pretty easy to get tired of answering inane questions about whether or not you should be where you are :( Although, he has a whole press corps to deal with things.

Now you can have your very own Kenyan birth certificate !

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Originally posted by leira
Perhaps Obama is just tired of pandering to these people. He gave them proof, and they asked for more proof.

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I have barely followed this issue, mainly because I have barely followed politics for the last 2-4 years. I am fed up with it.

So let me ask:

Has he provided an original, stamped copy of a birth certificate?

I know when I got a passport I had to have one, and I have had to present an original, stamped copy of a birth certificate a few other times in my life. So it can't be THAT hard of a thing to produce if one has one, right?

From the BBC link in my first post in this thread:

"Did the documents stop the rumours?

No. When Mr Obama's Certification of Live Birth was published, as a scanned document on the Obama campaign's website, some people began to question its authenticity.

It was alleged in blog posts, chain emails and internet forums that the document did not have an official stamp or seal and that it lacked an official signature. Some even suggested that the document had been faked using picture-altering software.

Was there any substance to these allegations?

No. Representatives from the Annenberg Public Policy Center's Political Fact Check project examined the hard copy of the document and verified that it did in fact bear an official seal, and had been signed by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T Onaka (using a signature stamp). Both the seal and the signature were on the (unscanned) reverse of the document."

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Originally posted by Aristotle
I have barely followed this issue, mainly because I have barely followed politics for the last 2-4 years. I am fed up with it.

So let me ask:

Has he provided an original, stamped copy of a birth certificate?

I know when I got a passport I had to have one, and I have had to present an original, stamped copy of a birth certificate a few other times in my life. So it can't be THAT hard of a thing to produce if one has one, right?

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He has produced - and the state of Hawaii has produced - exactly what every request for a birth certificate produces. Twice.

There does appear to be a hoax element, though, Ari. There is a purported Kenyan birth certificate for him which is very clearly a hoax. So despite people actually believing this, you weren't far off the mark.

Here's a link to the above mentioned fact check, including pictures showing the certificate and it's official seal.

See it for yourself.

Khalid, I was hoping for a hoax on the media. :)

I do not want the hoax to be people actually trying to discredit our President. That would be despicable and extremely damaging to our political process and culture.

I don't think I understand Ari, are you saying that it's despicable that someone is hoaxing the 'birthers'?

I don't think so, he said "a hoax on the people BY trying to discredit our president" and not "a hoax on the people trying to discredit our president"

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Originally posted by Achtius
How dare you claim he is not the anti-christ! Give me proof he isn't!

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Yeah!

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Originally posted by Malacasta
I don't think I understand Ari, are you saying that it's despicable that someone is hoaxing the 'birthers'?

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Sorry. I need to fix that sentence.

I was saying that a deliberate hoax to try and convince people the President is illegitimate is despicable.

As I have said from the beginning, I really hope this whole thing is a Borat-style hoax on the media. I love when they get burned.

The daily show segment on this silliness was good.

I forgot to add that I predict somebody, who may not even believe in this conspiracy theory, will write a bestselling book on this and will make a lot of money.