The moment that prisons were privatised they became a business, and modern business cares only about profit.
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The moment that prisons were privatised they became a business, and modern business cares only about profit.
Marx argued that creating and maintaining a perpetually unemployed lower class is intrinsic to capitalism. It allows for maximum exploitation of the working class by ensuring that someone will always be willing to sell their labor for less.Quote:
Originally posted by Malacasta
I don't think this theory makes a lot of sense in terms of benefiting capital... something is needed need to explain the plethora of private jails in the US and now in Australia.
Prisoners work for pennies an hour.
(If we want to consider a theoretical explanation).
The prison system has also been heavily criticized for exploiting its captive consumer base. It (so the argument goes) underfeeds its inmates and then sells overpriced supplements (cup o'soup, soft drinks, etc) that prisoners can buy with money sent to their accounts by their families on the outside.
There's a 2006 price list of items in Michigan prisons here ->
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=291273
To be honest, those prices aren't high, but I have heard Georgia inmates claim that a cigarette lighter costs them $4 (about 5 times what I'd pay for a disposable lighter at most stores).
Pelic, but a public school system that's role was to create prisoners would make more lumpen than could ever be used in that manner. Capitalism also requires an educated working class. If public schools are prison preschool, then where do the workers and middle class (in the US sense) come from?
I think with Kailen's comment and some of the responses, some lines are being blurred - the why/how of private prisons vs. the role of the public education system.Quote:
Originally posted by Malacasta
[B]Pelic, but a public school system that's role was to create prisoners would make more lumpen than could ever.../B]
The basic criticism against the public school system (in terms of this discussion, in the US) is that their function (not necessarily their intention) is to reproduce the existing power structures and social conditions.
I'll give an example, and try to keep it short.
When I was 5 and starting school, I took an aptitude test that decided which level class I would be put into (A, B, C). Once put into a level, it was very hard to move. You needed teacher recommendation and school adminstration approval. You stay in the same level (with a few rare exceptions) until you graduate high school - which had three types of diplomas: college prep, general, and technical (technical meaning you took classes in car repair, welding, etc instead of higher level maths, sciences, etc).
So, as a 5 year old, it was already decided whether I would go to college or take a working class job (again, with a handful of rare exceptions). And, it was decided largely on the basis of the resources my parents were able to make available to me as a 5 year old (based on their wealth, education, etc) - was "school" important to them, did they have the money to buy me Big Bird's Learn to Read books, etc.
You might make the argument that generational frustration at being poor working class could lead to a higer crime rate and therefore "produce" prisoners - but I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that it's intentional.
And, not all schools in the US use "tracking" like mine did.
Right, I think we basically agree.
again off the mark. Soon as I get home. I'll fully respond.Quote:
Originally posted by Pelic
I think with Kailen's comment and some of the responses, some lines are being blurred - the why/how of private prisons vs. the role of the public education system.
The basic criticism against the public school system (in terms of this discussion, in the US) is that their function (not necessarily their intention) is to reproduce the existing power structures and social conditions.
I'll give an example, and try to keep it short.
When I was 5 and starting school, I took an aptitude test that decided which level class I would be put into (A, B, C). Once put into a level, it was very hard to move. You needed teacher recommendation and school adminstration approval. You stay in the same level (with a few rare exceptions) until you graduate high school - which had three types of diplomas: college prep, general, and technical (technical meaning you took classes in car repair, welding, etc instead of higher level maths, sciences, etc).
So, as a 5 year old, it was already decided whether I would go to college or take a working class job (again, with a handful of rare exceptions). And, it was decided largely on the basis of the resources my parents were able to make available to me as a 5 year old (based on their wealth, education, etc) - was "school" important to them, did they have the money to buy me Big Bird's Learn to Read books, etc.
You might make the argument that generational frustration at being poor working class could lead to a higer crime rate and therefore "produce" prisoners - but I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that it's intentional.
And, not all schools in the US use "tracking" like mine did.
I'm not going to get into some pseudo-intellectual argument with trolls. You haven't said anything on this thread except your original outrageous claim and "You're wrong - I'll post when I get home".Quote:
Originally posted by Kailen
again off the mark. Soon as I get home. I'll fully respond.
Kailen, quoting someone's entire post only to say "I'll respond to this later" doesn't really help. Just abandon the thread till you can respond to it - much more useful.
This is a tangent, but it really upset me. Everyone here should know my position on the state, and state violence, but I still sometimes get taken aback. If this sort of shit happens to a pretty, middle class white girl, then how deep is the problem, how endemic?
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/9049Quote:
Check out the video below, where WKYC investigative reporter Tom Meyer spoke with Greg Steffey, whose wife, Hope Steffey called 911 after she was assaulted by her cousin. Things took a turn for the worst when the police arrived and treated Hope as the perpetrator. She was arrested, taken to jail, and subjected to a humiliating full-body strip search by both male and female officers, violating the sheriff department's own policy that a strip search be conducted by an officer of the same sex. Hope was then left naked in a cell for six hours.
This video came out a while back, so I tried to find an update. This is the best I could do.Quote:
Originally posted by Malacasta
This is a tangent, but it really upset me. Everyone here should know my position on the state, and state violence, but I still sometimes get taken aback. If this sort of shit happens to a pretty, middle class white girl, then how deep is the problem, how endemic?
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/9049
http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_...91848&catid=45
Now, tell me, what exactly was the wrong-doing in the video that upset you? The fact that she was screaming hysterically while they stripped her? Because that is all that is shown. She is not being beaten or verbally abused. There are no sexually deviant things being said by the male officers. There is no force being used beyond that which is needed to safely restrain a raving woman.
Everything that is happening there is in line with how police deal with frantically resistant people. She is a suburban white woman. This does not mean she gets special treatment and can avoid this. We don't know the whole story, but some of the facets of the case that have emerged are:
There was drinking involved. Hope Steffey and the cousins involved were drunk during the dispute/assault that called the police to the scene.
Hope Steffey gave an ID that was not hers to a police officer (because she was distraught and/or drunk). This is obviously a huge no-no, and will wave a big-ass red flag to any officer. The truth about the ID belonging to her dead sister is irrelevant. The officer does not and cannot know this for truth at the time.
So, why was Hope Steffey arrested when she called for help? Besides giving an ID that wasn't hers to an officer for processing, my guess is that she was the most drunk. She was the most obnoxious and belligerent towards the officer. She probably couldn't keep her story straight. That is my opinion, but the bottom line is that she was the most suspicious.
The strip search was not a strip search according to the court-findings. Instead, it was suicide prevention as dictated by an on-duty doctor (there is no male/female officer requirement attached to this preventative measure). I couldn't find anything on it, but I presume said doctor was interrogated and testified at the trial that found the department not guilty.
So, back to the video. Where was the wrongdoing? All I see are officers (male and female), very professionally, stripping a hysterical, resistant (still drunk?) woman.
From what I know (I come from an entire family of cops), everything in that video and that story is concurrent with having to deal with a person who is resistant from Step 1.
Remember, people, not everyone goes along with the police. When someone says "no", the police are authorized to (and have to) use force. People watch these videos and get upset when they see such displays, but they are necessary to enforce the law.