Proselytizing

So, Penn Jillette had some thought-provoking words about proselytizing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JHS8adO3hM

It's interesting to me, because I usually hear nothing but negative on the subject. Thoughts?

I think there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. Most people that do it tend to do it the wrong way. Most of the people who have tried it with me were annoying or worse. However, I've got an old friend that is a Jehova's Witness. It'd be fair to call some of his conversations with me proselytizing, but never annoyingly so.

I guess the first thing everybody should learn is to not inconvenience people with it. Don't come to my door, phone me, put junk in my mailbox, try to talk to me when I'm clearly busy, etc. If you're sitting beside me on the bus, feel free to talk about it. If I actually know you and it comes up in casual conversation, that's fine. Treat my beliefs with the respect you want me to treat yours with. Be positive about your own beliefs, rather than negative about mine.

There's probably more I could say, I might return to this later. It's worth noting though that my advice applies to aetheists as well.

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Originally posted by leira
Be positive about your own beliefs, rather than negative about mine.

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Leira, I think this statement really hits the nail on the head, and not just in regards to religion. I've got to go ponder it for a while.

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Be positive about your own beliefs, rather than negative about mine.

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Oh this! So very very this! I'm putting this on a goddamn bumper sticker!

I've spent a bit of time with some bible literalists. This one girl and I came to an agreement, which I don't quite understand. She was praying at a table at work, and I asked her whether she believed in hell, which she did, and I asked her whether she thought all non-believers would go to hell, and she did, and I asked her whether all the people who hadn't been presented with the words of her bible would go to hell, and they would - according to her, and I asked her - she knowing that I was an atheist - whether I would go to hell, and I certainly would according to her, where I would spend eternity in torture and torment and misery etc etc. And I said something like, if there was a hell, that she should be sent there for worshipping a god that could carry out such a monumental atrocity (against all those other people, maybe sentencing me to hell might not be an atrocity). Anyways, she burst into, tears and ran out of the dining hall (which might see me one layer deeper or something).

And while I think Penn makes an important point; what sort of a person would believe in eternal hell and not try and save people from ending up there? I also think it is sophistry at some level. Surely the more important question is what sort of person would worship a god that would condemn so many people to such a fate?

Such a belief is so abhorrent that I feel no shame in publicly making a young woman cry and run out of a room. If I managed to make her feel the least bit uncomfortable about her offensive convictions, then that is the least that she deserved. And I honestly don't care if people think that is impolite - I'm not the one who is convinced the vast majority of life on this planet is doomed to spend eternity in torment.

I earlier alluded to the strange 'peace' that existed between us after that. I think that it is useful at some level, to be honest about these things. Once two people who have oppositional positions become aware that they will always be at odds, I think it becomes easier to work together or something. Maybe it's like sexual tension? A guy at work said the most racist shit to me the other week at work. Now I say to him 'well you would think that, you're a racist asshole' and he agrees, and well, it's all very easy. Hrm, maybe there's something wrong in that too.

^Why Atheists tend to be horrible at proselytizing.

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Originally posted by Theairoh
^Why Atheists tend to be horrible at proselytizing.

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I think it's interesting that my drunken little anecdotal ramble can be so easily dismissed in a line of snark by you, Theairoh. It seems to suggest that it should be self evident that everything I said was false and useless and demonstrative of something.

Rather than your clever little pointy arrow, I'd like an argument about why HER position that I was going to spend an eternity being tortured was acceptable and polite and respectable - where as my position was somehow snark worthy and illustrative of the meanness and political incorrectness of atheists.

AND while I'm drunk and in the mood to boast about my conquests. On the topic of Proselytizing, I have a belt full of notches where I convinced nice little capitalists to become card carrying commies. It's just that with some people - asshole racists, fundy hellfire religious types etc - there isn't very much point in a left winger investing vast amounts of time. The two world views are just too different.

Which is not to say that I hate everyone on the other side of the fence. There are some very good friends I've made here who are my political opposites, and we often engage in rowdy arguments and come out friends on the other side.

I would never claim it was. That sort of mentality is rather frightening.

But amusingly, it doesn't illustrate your point at all. It's typical of the 293057203579 other "BAWWWANTIRELIGION" rants I've heard in my lifetime.

I don't understand. What was my point? What did I fail to illustrate?