Iraq Revokes All Contractor Immunity

I would venture a guess as to say that there are more guns in Iraq than there are people. Culturally they are intimately familiar with weapons, and have generally been around them their whole lives. I have had children probably under 10 years old tell me the by-the-numbers specifications of an M-4 before.

Further, I would also say that the VAST majority (simply because I cannot say 'everyone') knows exactly what to do at a checkpoint. If they don't stop, you gesture for them to stop. If they continue, you point a weapon. If they continue, you fire a warning shot (depending on SOP), and so on, and so on. These decisions have to be made in seconds, and not in a vacuum.

As to what Rosuav said, guns being visible means almost nothing. Everyone has one. Most people have them slung over a shoulder as if it was no big deal. The biggest killer overseas are explosive devices which are placed into cars and then run into checkpoints, and/or left by the side of the road.

If someone is acting stupidly in the vicinity of a checkpoint, of course it does not give you the right to kill them but it makes the occurrence much more likely.

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Originally posted by Malacasta It is my understanding that in the case where two women were shot dead recently at a checkpoint by blackwater, that the driver accelerated in panic. FWIW, I think that it's entirely likely that people could fuck up in terror when folks aim guns at them.

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Accelerated in panic. I don't buy that. Propaganda is the most powerful weapon of the Islamic fascists. I wouldn't be surprised if it was done intentionally to create the negative publicity. And don't tell me there aren't people over there messed up enough to do something like that.

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Originally posted by Darion
I would venture a guess as to say that there are more guns in Iraq than there are people. Culturally they are intimately familiar with weapons, and have generally been around them their whole lives. I have had children probably under 10 years old tell me the by-the-numbers specifications of an M-4 before.

Further, I would also say that the VAST majority (simply because I cannot say 'everyone') knows exactly what to do at a checkpoint. If they don't stop, you gesture for them to stop. If they continue, you point a weapon. If they continue, you fire a warning shot (depending on SOP), and so on, and so on. These decisions have to be made in seconds, and not in a vacuum.

As to what Rosuav said, guns being visible means almost nothing. Everyone has one. Most people have them slung over a shoulder as if it was no big deal. The biggest killer overseas are explosive devices which are placed into cars and then run into checkpoints, and/or left by the side of the road.

If someone is acting stupidly in the vicinity of a checkpoint, of course it does not give you the right to kill them but it makes the occurrence much more likely.

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Thanks for contributing to this thread Darion. If you can share any of your experiences interacting with these private firms, I'd love to hear them.

Honestly, I sometimes get kinda fed up with all the armchair quarterbacking that happens here in our nice safe little worlds. Most of the people who post about this stuff have almost no idea at all about how things really go down over there. On Threshold, we are actually fortunate to have a few people who have BEEN THERE and seen first hand how things happen. Those are the folks I would really like to hear from.

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I would venture a guess as to say that there are more guns in Iraq than there are people. Culturally they are intimately familiar with weapons, and have generally been around them their whole lives. I have had children probably under 10 years old tell me the by-the-numbers specifications of an M-4 before.

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This is an interesting opinion. I'd be curious to know the prevalence of civilian weaponry in Iraq under Saddam Hussein. It's my guess that dictators wouldn't go for this.

This same quote could easily be applied to America as well. The difference is the amount of violence, gun fire and armed check stops.

As for the referrence to someone panicking and speeding up towards a check stop; that just doesn't make sense to me.

This was actually an australian company, not blackwater

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One witness said the guards in the convoy, who were reported to be masked, had fired a warning shot and a smoke bomb in the direction of the women's car. He said the woman driving appeared to panic and failed to stop. A police spokesman said their car had then been hit with at least 16 bullets. The convoy then sped off leaving behind the blood-stained vehicle. Iraqi police later collected the bodies and towed the car to a local police station.

The women were described as being Christians. Marou Awanis, 48, was named as the driver. Relatives said she had been ferrying government employees to work to raise money to support her daughters. Two children in the back seat escaped unharmed, police said.

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2187278,00.html

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Originally posted by kestra
This same quote could easily be applied to America as well. The difference is the amount of violence, gun fire and armed check stops.

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The difference is also registration, the sheer number of guns, and the tight regulation of the same. But yeah, sure. Other than that stuff America and Iraq are the same in terms of weapons. Not. You are comparing the US to a country that fires weapons into the air in public to celebrate things. Think about it...

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He said the woman driving appeared to panic and failed to stop.

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There's your answer. Zing.

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He said the woman driving appeared to panic and failed to stop.

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Originally posted by Darion
There's your answer. Zing.

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What?

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You are comparing the US to a country that fires weapons into the air in public to celebrate things. Think about it...

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Yeah, that never happens in the US of A.

Stop with the sarcasm and hit me with some linkage if you want to tell me differently.

I think we've gone off topic enough. The subject was Contractor Immunity. I'd be happy to discuss this more privately.