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No Touching Video from CNN.com
I watched this and was just dumbfounded that there was actually a rule like this. In my opinion, the school (as well as parents of course) should be teaching them what is appropriate touching and deal with the inappropriate behavior as they occur. A blanket policy like this is a bit extreme.
I think it's a good policy. Some kids don't differentiate between okay touching and unacceptable touching.
Up until around the 7th grade I was a target for all kinds of "bullies." We moved around a lot and it becomes hard for young boys to fit in and I was no exception. Well I was also in a couple shitty school systems that certainly didn't help. I remember taking verbal abuse but plenty of physical as well, like getting punched in the stomach,spit on, shoved, etc. Well now that I look back on it those kids likely had mental issues and problems in the home/with the family. Other kids should never have to put up with their dysfunction.
I've come to view most public school systems as shit holes. The kids have no respect for adults and seem to me to acquire all their behaviors from other kids, which probably comes from the idiot box (t.v.). They don't need to be touching other students or putting their hands on anybody. They need to learn boundaries early on. You might think, "Oh they just wanna shake hands or hug." Give me a break- I don't recall shaking another classmates hand anytime during my stint through public education (wow Steve great job on that history quiz! [handshake]). Hugging? They can do it after school. I don't think it's all that draconian of a policy. How many legit scenarios can you think of where a student should display affection/friendship? Not very many.
You have to remember some of these kids are flat out aggressive. Some won't hesitate to pound another student without thinking of consequences (well I'm mostly referring to highschool kids). Sometimes even grown adults. They're just all the more cooler and respected by their classmates. Start them off early- it's not okay to put your hands on other people.
Although I don't have kids this seems like a reasonable policy for a school to have. During my day to day interactions with people outside of my family the most contact I will have with another person is a handshake- this would be the appropriate behavior they are trying to teach. Kids are more touchy feely than adults, but they can do so with their friends outside of school. The policy simplifies things for both the teachers and kids.
At 13 is one thing but when kids are in kindergarten or 1st grade it's a bit ridiculous. My son is an affectionate child and if he gave someone a hug he would get in trouble for it. I think they have gone overboard on this just like many other things.
I mean there is appropriate and unappropriate touching and kids need to learn that but to be punished for a hug? Come on. That is just ridiculous. You're showing kids that emotions are not excepted. So let's all make them into little robots. Don't blame the kids blame the parents and society for what it is today.
This is a stupid policy.Quote:
I don't recall shaking another classmates hand anytime during my stint through public education (wow Steve great job on that history quiz! [handshake]). Hugging? They can do it after school. I don't think it's all that draconian of a policy. How many legit scenarios can you think of where a student should display affection/friendship? Not very many.
I remember plenty of times where I hugged people, shaking hands, and showed affection to classmates.
Touching is so very important to human beings. I am strongly opposed to teaching students that touching is a bad idea.
As always, the onus is on parents to demonstrate and teach their children what is and isn't appropriate.
Unfortunately, it is too common today to try to overprotect people and kids, rather than trying to lean on people to educate their kids in proper behaviour.Quote:
originally by Savaric
You have to remember some of these kids are flat out aggressive. Some won't hesitate to pound another student without thinking of consequences (well I'm mostly referring to highschool kids). Sometimes even grown adults. They're just all the more cooler and respected by their classmates. Start them off early- it's not okay to put your hands on other people.
To me, a no touch policy is the wrong signal. Once more, all kids are made to suffer because society seems unable to deal with those who never are taught the correct ways.
This is an example of what happens when we don't have the balls to fight the real problem.
Like passing Jessica's Law in every state.
Like the death penalty for child molesters - or at least repeat offenders for the worst crimes.
There should be extraordinary punishments for teachers who have sex with their students.
Kids who cause trouble in schools, cause fights, etc. should be kicked out of school and/or sent to schools for troubled kids. The parents should also be punished. Good kids shouldn't have to suffer the deterioration of their own educational environment because the school has to put up with the horrible kids.
This can be applied to much of what happens in society. An extreme reaction, one way or another. Balanced, well-thought out proposals are often tossed out because they are 'too difficult' to employ.Quote:
This is an example of what happens when we don't have the balls to fight the real problem.
It does not surprise me, though, that this would come up in America. Americans tend to be less physically affectionate than the people of other countries. Is that right? I don't think so. I agree that physical contact is important to the well-being of people. We're seperated by enough ways to do something like this.
Again.. how I feel on the matter...
My two daughters decide to solve problems by hitting one another. Sooo.. we decide that as a family... we will never touch each other again! No kisses..no hugs.. no nothing. Where I should be teaching them appropriate ways of handling conflict, I instead decide to take the extreme and forbid them from touching one another forever....
Come on... this is not the way to be raising, young adults. Give them a bit of credit.
That's a little out of context though Issy. The public education system is hardly a family. And sure enough plenty of kids and young adults are all too happy to solve their disputes by hitting one another or by putting their hands on someone else- in this case someone elses kids.Quote:
Originally posted by Ismenia
My two daughters decide to solve problems by hitting one another. Sooo.. we decide that as a family... we will never touch each other again! No kisses..no hugs.. no nothing. Where I should be teaching them appropriate ways of handling conflict, I instead decide to take the extreme and forbid them from touching one another forever....
Well hey look at this way. The American school systems are on a one way track to the gutter: http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/06....ap/index.html
We need to start trying new things.
This does not quite compare, but i will comment it anyhow.Quote:
Originally posted by Ismenia
Again.. how I feel on the matter...
My two daughters decide to solve problems by hitting one another. Sooo.. we decide that as a family... we will never touch each other again! No kisses..no hugs.. no nothing. Where I should be teaching them appropriate ways of handling conflict, I instead decide to take the extreme and forbid them from touching one another forever....
(snip...)
The only word i really might consider odd or bad in this is 'forever'. And honestly, i doubt it will be forever. But even aside that, we are talking about your family. Decisions which are viable to be taken in a family do not always translate to larger systems, like schools. This is one case.
So, i hope your decision will teach your girls the lesson you want it to.
I am not insane enough to do that! I was using it as an analogy. I would never do that with my children.
That is how I feel this school system is handling the touching issue. "Don't let them touch at all, because children can't be taught or learn appropriate touching behavior... so lets just take that right away from them." What it teaches the children in this school is that the faculty doesn't have enough respect for the kids and their ability to learn what is right and wrong. Do we want to raise a whole generation of children who think any form of touching at all is wrong? Or do we want to raise responsible children and young adults who are given the opportunity to make informed decisions about how to conduct themselves? Not every child will make the appropriate decisions, but I imagine a good majority of them would. You deal with the inappropriate behavior as it arises and assign consequences based on each individual case.
Children typically begin the school day at 8 o clock here. They leave at 3. That is a 7 hour school day. That is 35 hours a week, about a typical work week for an adult.
Whether the school board, government, teachers admit this or not, a child's life at school will directly reflect on how they handle their adult life both in society and at the workplace. Since they are spending a great portion of their time at school, this will reflect on their future experiences. In many cases, school sets a more important example than family itself due to the friends that are made and rules that are set forth.
Currently, schools are setting forth a policy which forbid children from bringing bibles to class, forbidding children to say certain words whether good or bad, forbidding children to believe facts or fiction in certain ways, and now forbidding children from touching. I'm really not sure that I want my own child growing up to become a godless, socially inept sociopath who will need 10 years of therapy just to correct the school's policies, which protect themselves from lawsuits from bothersome parents.
Rofl, I knew you were using an anology.Quote:
Originally posted by Ismenia
I am not insane enough to do that! I was using it as an analogy. I would never do that with my children.
I don't think this policy is going to show kids that touching is wrong. They will just know there are certain times for certain kinds of behavior.Quote:
Originally posted by Ismenia
Do we want to raise a whole generation of children who think any form of touching at all is wrong? Or do we want to raise responsible children and young adults who are given the opportunity to make informed decisions about how to conduct themselves?
I think there's some important details about this case I'm not clear on. I only saw the story on tv and I didn't know what grade this school was. I wouldn't apply this policy below middle school- that age of kids definitely needs to be able to express themselves. But once they reach middle school and beyond is where they start developing some bad behaviors towards others.
Schools need to be places of discipline and respect. I just think this policy would set up a boundary for students to respect. Frankly if it were up to me they would all have uniforms. Freedom of expression is great but American kids are taking it to extremes (like it's a free country and I can do whatever I want and I don't have to respect you!). Also kids should be focused on learning and not socializing in the schools. Obviously I know it's important for social development to maintain their friendships and human interaction even at school. But I think kids are putting so much of their time and energy into their little social heirarchies that it is hurting their academic performance. I just don't see them becoming little robots from this sort of policy. It's not like they aren't still gonna be talking to each other and hanging out after school.
I haven't heard about the not being able to bring a bible to class. Where did you hear that?Quote:
Originally posted by Sier
Currently, schools are setting forth a policy which forbid children from bringing bibles to class, forbidding children to say certain words whether good or bad, forbidding children to believe facts or fiction in certain ways, and now forbidding children from touching. I'm really not sure that I want my own child growing up to become a godless, socially inept sociopath who will need 10 years of therapy just to correct the school's policies, which protect themselves from lawsuits from bothersome parents.
What are the good words they aren't allowed to say?
Believe facts or fiction in certain ways- maybe you are referring to biology class?
What's wrong with being godless? You don't need to worship God to be a good person or be socially well-adjusted. Also I'm not sure we're talking about children here. I think this policy is applying to young adults?
What's next?! No touching self?! Just chop off their hands for good measures.
It'd be interesting to see how the teachers would handle the parents greeting and hugging their kids when they come to pick them up.
Does this mean no high fives, or hugs when a team scores a point in a game, or gets a home run, etc...?
Most likely, it might hurt the other players feelings.Quote:
Originally posted by kestra
Does this mean no high fives, or hugs when a team scores a point in a game, or gets a home run, etc...?
Let's take a step back here. If the other team scores a point, it might hurt your feelings! So the other team isn't allowed to score any points. Or, every time they score a point, you get one too, free. At the end, we decide that winning and losing is far too outdated, Anglo-centric, sexist, racist, and Republican, so we declare that both teams did a Really Good Job(tm) and pat everyone on the back and send them home.
Oh wait... not allowed to pat them on the back...