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He said "using the world's definition of good and evil". You can argue that it's from a flawed view of the world's doctrine, but that's all.Quote:
Originally posted by Maelgrim
Ignore this statement, it is made from an extremely flawed view of Christian Doctrine and thus should not be counted in the argument.
"There really are complete and total shitbags that are going to heaven."
What does it mean to you to worship and love a god that will welcome a "complete and total shitbag" into eternal life, but condemn others who live virtuous but godless (or wrong godded, or wrong denominationed) lives to the unending suffering and despair of hell?
I really would like to understand your mindset as it's one that has always confused me, for example, if I had a boss or a ruler who was as cruel as the God you worship seems to be, I might have to obey him (depending on my circumstances) but I really couldn't love him.
I'm on the same boat as Kestra mainly.
I pretty much agree with the article, but the problem with it lies in its concept - there are many religions, many morals and many logics. There are some nutty religions out there (some of them of polytheism) and not all applies for everyone.
And Malacasta wrote above the exact same question I was going to post.
It's all in your definitions. You are bringing to this discussion a certain definition of "good" and "evil". Anthson has a different definition, and he's trying to apply to his argument the definition that he thinks you use. How successful this is, though, is under attack.
Answering Malacasta's question, I split this subject off. I don't think it was the intention of the author of this thread to start a religious discussion. Probably should get back to talking about the list of 10.
I can't see what's wrong with this statement. I actually quite like it. As I see it, it simply means most religions promise heaven only for their followers exclusively, which means there would be plenty of good peole thrown in hell.Quote:
There are evil people going to heaven and there are very good folks going to hell. Obviously the world's litmus test for good and evil isn't God's standard. There really are complete and total shitbags that are going to heaven. I'd wager you could find some on death row if you want to go study them.
There is Spirtuallity and then there is Religion
Sprituallity is God Given
Religion is Man made
the, if you don't beleive like I do or you are condemed to...(fill in blank) outlook is flawed.
I know folks that will go to church on sunday professing their sins and asking to be forgiven and two hours later shoplifting from the walmart, forgiveness requires a change in behavior.
Hell is not a place (to me) but a seperation from the spirt of my , Higher power, God, supreme being, Great spirt... the list goes on.
it happens mostly when I utilize that FREE WILL I was given and
run on self will for Selfish and self seeking reasons.
Being judgemental based on what I preceive someone to be
by , their looks, words, my past expericences can flaw my outlook.
God does not make himself too hard find for those that seek him, but a life time of preconceptions will not leave me overnight
it takes much self searching and self examination.
Most all your spritual /religious beliefs state this in some form.
I dont try to look at the differences in each religion out there
I try to see the common denominators they have.
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" There is a Principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguements and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-
that principle is contempt prior to investigation
- Herbert Spencer
Back to the OT:
Celebrating the death of somebody you disagreed with pretty much makes you a dick.
Very true. But the problem is he uses the keyword "disagree" but later he uses the example of Jerry Falwell. That's a dishonest way of making a point; people were not celebrating his death because of a simple disagreement, but because in their eyes he's a guy who worked against concepts they consider "human rights". In other words, they did not celebrate the death becaues of disagreement but because of a strong feeling of dislike.
1.You Can Do Terrible Things in the Name of Either One.
All I need from you is agreement that it's entirely possible for either an atheist or theist world to devolve into a screaming murder festival.
True, but his avoidance of the following debate makes his point rather moot.
Atheists, even if you reject the idea of God completely and claim to live according only to the cold logic of the physical sciences, you all still live as if the absolute morality of some magical lawgiver were true.
Although I agree with the statement, I don't like this part one bit. Becaues it seems to suggest that morality has anything to do with God; just because one seeks physical explanation for the creation of the universe, it does not mean he/she will be cold calculating robot in his/her personal life.
God is not the source of morality. In fact, God has nothing to do with morality, there are plenty of immoral things in religious texts of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And there are plenty of athiests who are very moral. So, I wonder why he bring two concepts of "rejection of God" and "living a moral life" in one paragraph.
I liked his next two points though:
4. There Are Good People on Both Sides
5. Your Point of View is Legitimately Offensive to Them
Two days later, he told me if I was ever late to class again, he'd knock 100 points off my grade.
To deter me from being late in the future.
As if I had the free will to be late or on time.
So we all got those contradictions, that's my point.
There's no contradiction. He doesn't have a clue here.
Going absolutely COMPLETELY off-topic for a moment... It is, but people still use it.Quote:
Originally posted by xaxer
outlook is flawed.
The difference is an atheist decides for himself what is or is not immoral. They get to make the choices and there's no constant or standard to hold your choices up against. You go off feeling. Now, if you have a standard written by the creator, you still get to choose whether you will follow morality or ignore it, but you don't get to make it up as you go along. The creator wrote in the rules.Quote:
Originally posted by ejda
Although I agree with the statement, I don't like this part one bit. Becaues it seems to suggest that morality has anything to do with God; just because one seeks physical explanation for the creation of the universe, it does not mean he/she will be cold calculating robot in his/her personal life.
If you don't like them or want to ignore them or claim they didn't come from anything supernatural, that's your choice. However, you cannot sit there and criticize someone else's immorality. That person has just as much a right as you do to think/feel what they're doing is moral and not immoral. They can fuck your wife and say "Hey, it's just meat slapping on meat. No big deal. Nothing immoral about that. It was programmed into me." And it's probably programmed in you to kill the sorry son of a bitch, too. Everyone gets to decide what's morality for themselves if we have no standard. That's not a world I want to live in.