Pope's quote angers Muslim World

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Originally posted by Darion
The thing is (and this is directed partly toward Jarkis), if the fundamentalists aren't indicative of Islam as a whole (and I personally don't believe they are), where are all the other guys that AREN'T fundamentalists while all these random acts of violence are going on?

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Sadly, the people who are not fundamentals have more important issues to deal with then burning churches. Remember this people live side by side with violence. They are figuring the short term and not the long term. They need food and other basic necessities. The sad thing is how their governments are corrupt or the inequality of distribution. (ie. Pakistan, Afghanistan Eygpt.) The sad news again, is that the only organizations they can turn to is those in support of the fundamentals and extremists. A cycle will follow. Those who do not get involve, also fear for their lives. There have been instances where people who stood up against the fundamentals were horribly killed and tortures. (links soon once I get more time to post.)

If you look at some profiles, once I find the sources I will pass them to you, of suicide bombers, they are actually have no history of violence or brain washing, but the promise that their family will be taken care of is enough to end his life. We overlook the reason on why people become terrorists in the first place. Apart from those who are uneducated and brain washed, there are those who are desperate and take up arms, sometimes in frustration and anger. (once I get the source I will pass it here.)

However, how do we help? We cant really do much, but hope. The governments of these countries must step up and end the poverty cycle (!! hard hard thing to do), emancipate women, carry out distribution of aid properly and slowly weed out extremist thinking. This process will take time. Years, Decades... who knows. But slowly.

Darion, you must remember, only a few countries are really anti-western and a few more having apathy towards it. Afghanistan and Pakistan are both under a government that is pro-US, but their people are not. Iran, well enough said. Iraq is suffering a Sunni, Shi'tte war and with the Coalition Forces. Syria always have not been buddies with the USA, having links to Hezbollah does not help. The rest of the majority, Turkey (an ally with the USA), Jordan, Saudi Arabia (been there and lived there for a while, definitely not anti-US), Kuwait, UAE, Yemen, Qatar, Oman, they all have links with the west and the people in this countries either have no feelings or they have a good perception of the West. But they are far from feeling hate and violence that the other countries might have for the West. They show the true nature of tolerance of other people, who are non-believers.

Again, I must repeat, that Islam is essential a religion of peace, tolerance. The acts of terrorism we have witness do not represent what is true about my faith. I hope no one generalizes because all it will do is cause more hate and even less tolerance.

Peace.

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Originally posted by Jarkis
Those who do not get involve, also fear for their lives. There have been instances where people who stood up against the fundamentals were horribly killed and tortures. (links soon once I get more time to post.)

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While I understand that it is a very difficult thing to overcome the desire to preserve one's life, when it concerns something as critical as this, everyone should put that fear aside. I say this knowing full well I would struggle to do the same, but I hope that I would be able to. Is it better to live in fear and watch people hijack your religion and escalate violence (in which case, you'd probably die anyhow) or to die defending the truth and your freedom?

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Originally posted by Jarkis
However, how do we help? We cant really do much, but hope. The governments of these countries must step up and end the poverty cycle (!! hard hard thing to do), emancipate women, carry out distribution of aid properly and slowly weed out extremist thinking. This process will take time. Years, Decades... who knows. But slowly.

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This mentality prevents you from taking action. Even in the USA, we have not gotten rid of poverty. To think that will end the violence is fairly naive. Extremists will find another bone to pick (such as encroaching Westernism due to globalisation). Certainly, we should continue to strive to help those in need, but to wait on the governments (some of whom are controlled by the extremists) is not the solution to this current problem.

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Originally posted by Jarkis
Again, I must repeat, that Islam is essential a religion of peace, tolerance. The acts of terrorism we have witness do not represent what is true about my faith. I hope no one generalizes because all it will do is cause more hate and even less tolerance.

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Show us! I would love nothing more than to see a massive, peaceful uprising of the moderate Muslims. I would love to see the "many" we are constantly told exist show their face and reclaim their religion. This is the key, I believe. Muslims must push extremists to the fringe and make it excruciatingly clear that they do not belong and are not welcome. Bleating feebly about how Islam is peaceful will not suffice.

What the Pope offered was a chance for Muslims to show that they are peaceful. He offered a chance for people to step up and prove him wrong. Instead, the opposite is happening and it is tragic.

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While I understand that it is a very difficult thing to overcome the desire to preserve one's life, when it concerns something as critical as this, everyone should put that fear aside. I say this knowing full well I would struggle to do the same, but I hope that I would be able to. Is it better to live in fear and watch people hijack your religion and escalate violence (in which case, you'd probably die anyhow) or to die defending the truth and your freedom?

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I completely support the ideal behind this sentiment, Caer, but I really don't see this happening. After all, it's not just those who stand up who are in danger, but their families, friends, and associates. It's a DAMN hard line to toe.

Hell, even Peter denied Christ.

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Originally posted by Caer

Show us! I would love nothing more than to see a massive, peaceful uprising of the moderate Muslims. I would love to see the "many" we are constantly told exist show their face and reclaim their religion. This is the key, I believe. Muslims must push extremists to the fringe and make it excruciatingly clear that they do not belong and are not welcome. Bleating feebly about how Islam is peaceful will not suffice.

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Well said.

And honestly, until this "majority" of peaceful moderates makes its voice heard, and dominates over the "fringe, violent minority", muslims worldwide really have no right getting offended when their religion is discussed in a negative light.

What the Muslim world needs is a civil war. It sucks but that is the reality of present day Islam. Until that happens, until the world is shown that there are Muslims that do not agree with the extremists then the world will only know what it is shown via newsworthy terrorist acts.

Fark.com: All the news you need.

Head of Indonesia's largest Muslim organization: The pope apologized, so STFU and GBTW. "If the rage continues, perhaps what the pope said is true."

The Jakarta Post

Caer makes the best point. Where are these majority moderates? Where's their voice? I don't see their clerics calling for a major discussion on the state of their religion when there's clearly something very, very wrong going on with the muslim world.

I'd like to hear from this majority of non-fundamentalists as well. I remember a great split in the Christian community over the appointing of a gay bishop a little while back. It was an issue that very much devided the church between those for and against and both sides were very vocal about their opinions. Admitedly that is not the same life or death issue as moderate muslims would face in condemming their fundementalist counterparts, but if they want to do something about people's opinions of Islam they have to do just that - DO SOMETHING.

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Originally posted by bolarithai
I'd like to hear from this majority of non-fundamentalists as well. I remember a great split in the Christian community over the appointing of a gay bishop a little while back. It was an issue that very much devided the church between those for and against and both sides were very vocal about their opinions. Admitedly that is not the same life or death issue as moderate muslims would face in condemming their fundementalist counterparts, but if they want to do something about people's opinions of Islam they have to do just that - DO SOMETHING.

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Well, wait then. You think it is easy when you have threats to your life, your family, your friends. Everything you know and love will be killed if you even go against them.

Well they are. Only not much publicity have been generated. News agencies around the world are telling you stories of the violence the fundamentals and extremist create because it affects the western world.

www.freemuslims.org, the Free Muslims coalition (FMC) is a group dedicated to showing the world the truth of Islam. If you truly wish to learn more, visit their website. Look at the chapters they have started in America and Eygpt. Do not say that the moderates are not doing anything. We are.

This is what I don't understand. It seems like Muslims are constantly willing to whip out the "Respect my religion!" card. By itself, this is not necessarily a bad thing.

But can anyone take issue over the pope's comments if you are willing to allow a growing faction of fundamentalists to bastardize the tenets of your religion, like you say that they're doing, in the first place? These people are permitted to carry out their agendas without anyone looking at them crosseyed, and yet when a man on the other side of the globe that, honestly, no one pays much attention to until he says something stupid or inflammatory, quotes a man that says Islam spreads their truth by the sword, everyone raises a row.

At least part of the reason Muslims in general have caught flak from the general population is that it seems somewhat hypocritical to decry any non-Muslim who speaks ill of the practice of your particular religion. This in and of itself is not a problem but rather that while this is going on, all the fundamentalists run wild. To me, this implies that they run the show.