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Savaric, I think my case is even worse than what you describe. I have a Hungarian nationality (as well as my Israeli) and not only do I not speak that language, I've never even been at the country. Though, if I went and lived there, I'd definitely learn the language (and I'm already bilingual, so it's not the case).
I agree with Leira. What is the big deal?!! I see this as a positive thing: immigrants feeling such pride for their new land that they want to be able to share the new country icons of patriotism. When I got my second citizenship, I didn't give a shit about the flag, the anthem or the vows... although I could speak the language well. So I consider myself much worse of an immigrant than those who feel they are part of the US but cannot speak the language well and want to share the US "icons".
Did anybody say to the Italian immigrants: "I am sorry guys we already have shepard pie in American, leave the pizza behind".
The problem here is that English speaking US citizens feel threatened by the huge amount of Spanish speaking citizens and illegal Spanish speaking immigrants. There are studies about this, it is a natural feeling. I am sure Latin Americans have brought another things to the US like Latin music or burritos. Nobody complains about these however the language is a problem because ones cannot understand the others.
I agree with Ari, there is no return. I guess on time the US will become a bilingual country like many other countries. I think this is a positive thing.
Salimar
That's exactly what bothers me with it.Quote:
Originally posted by Salimar
When I got my second citizenship, I didn't give a shit about the flag, the anthem or the vows...
No, but we did tell them to leave the Lira behind (or at least convert them). We don't need 2 national anthems. We already have one, and its one of the best in the world. Is this a big deal? Not really. But it is still lame to write a totally different anthem in another language (its not even a translation, its all new words).Quote:
Originally posted by Salimar
Did anybody say to the Italian immigrants: "I am sorry guys we already have shepard pie in American, leave the pizza behind".
I don't feel threatened. I just hate the inefficiency of it. We waste billions of dollars every year translating every government form into spanish, having spanish version of telephone recordings, etc. I'm not talking about businesses making the smart move to provide for multiple language customers. I'm talking about government stuff that the taxpayers pay for.Quote:
Originally posted by Salimar
The problem here is that English speaking US citizens feel threatened by the huge amount of Spanish speaking citizens and illegal Spanish speaking immigrants.
On the general issue of immigration, I am more of an open borders type of guy. What makes (and made) America great was letting anyone come here who wanted to stake a claim in the world. (granted, open borders would have to come with much stricter systems of government benefits). But in my view, anyone who wants to come here to work and make a life for themself should be able to. We aren't overcrowded. The majority of the country is empty.
Woah now. I never said that, so you can't agree with me on a point I never made.Quote:
Originally posted by Salimar
I agree with Ari, there is no return. I guess on time the US will become a bilingual country like many other countries. I think this is a positive thing.
Now that I agree to.... key words... work and make a life for themself.Quote:
Originally posted by Aristotle
But in my view, anyone who wants to come here to work and make a life for themself should be able to.
I must say I do not care about the flag, the anthem or the vows of my first country neither. However, I do pay my taxes and work for any country I live in. I respect the rules and the people wherever I am. I think that is what citizens should be bothered about instead of how I feel for a piece of silk. What happen if I do not like that song in particular or does everybody have to like the same music? I know the mob needs to be part of something and those icons made them feel that warm togetherness on the stomach... but taken a rational look at it... countries come and go as well as flags and anthems. We might be living a historical moment, when the US anthem changed forever ;) .Quote:
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Originally posted by Salimar
When I got my second citizenship, I didn't give a shit about the flag, the anthem or the vows...
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That's exactly what bothers me with it.
Ari, sorry if I interpreted your post wrongly. From your reply to Gadiator as below, I interpreted that is too late to return to a one-language country. I do agree with that. However, I see that not as an inefficiency but as a cultural enrichment.Quote:
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Originally posted by Salimar
I agree with Ari, there is no return. I guess on time the US will become a bilingual country like many other countries. I think this is a positive thing.
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Woah now. I never said that, so you can't agree with me on a point I never made.
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Originally posted by Gadiantor
If we'd get off our asses and make English the National Language we could end this discussion forever.
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It is definitely way past time to make this happen.
That piece of silk holds alot more meaning then you think and it might not be everyone in this country but I bet there is alot of people in this country that that silk holds a great meaning for. As for the song I think that too holds a lot of meaning. It's a part of our history and a part of what made this country. So it's not about particularly liking the music but the meaning behind the words.Quote:
Originally posted by Salimar
I must say I do not care about the flag, the anthem or the vows of my first country neither. However, I do pay my taxes and work for any country I live in. I respect the rules and the people wherever I am. I think that is what citizens should be bothered about instead of how I feel for a piece of silk. What happen if I do not like that song in particular or does everybody have to like the same music? I know the mob needs to be part of something and those icons made them feel that warm togetherness on the stomach... but taken a rational look at it... countries come and go as well as flags and anthems. We might be living a historical moment, when the US anthem changed forever ;)
Now as far as countries coming and going that may be true in the east but I don't see that happening so much over here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Aristotle
But it is still lame to write a totally different anthem in another language (its not even a translation, its all new words).
Not only that, but they are changing the title to "Our Anthem"
It's not the Mexicans Anthem, its the USA's Anthem. By them calling it "Our Anthem" (to me, anyway) means they are trying to take something that belongs to all Americans.
I'm not sure of the actual numbers, but I'm sure a large portion of these Mexicans are illegal immigrants. How many of them do you think pay taxes? I'm sure it's not very many, if any.
I'm also not certain how employers work their Mexican employes, but I always understood it to be 'under the table' below minimum wage.
No, I said it is past time that we made English our national language. In other words, its overdue. We should have already done it, and still need to do it.Quote:
Originally posted by Salimar
I interpreted that is too late to return to a one-language country. I do agree with that. However, I see that not as an inefficiency but as a cultural enrichment.
This is not an issue of diversity or enriching our culture. Our culture is not improved by people who cannot communicate, or by billions of dollars wasted annually to print documents, signs, etc. in multiple languages.
What enriches our culture is continuing to be open to letting people immigrate here, which I am for.