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I read this article and it made me sick to think that someone would mass market T-shirts like these to the young women in our society. I know it probably could be worse, but it just goes to show that we haven't come very far. My daugther is four and I get nervous about some of the clothes they market for children! Some of the clothes I have seen for grade school girls make them look like young sleezes. It is sad.
Abercrombie & Fitch to pull tees after "girl-cott"
It never ceases to amaze me how some people in this country can be so sensitive and dramatic.
I am actually shocked and amazed that these very mild slogans were "boycotted" and drew national attention when some very... and much more offensive products remain.
I agree there are FAR worse out there. But my 12 year old neice shops there and I certainly wouldn't want her walking around with one of those shirts on. I might be sensitive about the topic, but I think it is the "mother" coming out in me. I first saw the slogans and chuckled but then I thought. Would I want my daughter wearing something like that? Any of you mothers or fathers for that matter out there agree?
A&F is a horribly sleezy company, and I absolutely refuse to shop there any longer. This really is nothing compared to the fact that a corporate memo was leaked last year ordering stores to fire all non-white employees. The issue actually made it onto several major news shows including Hardball. Their corporation tried to argue that they were like a Chinese restaurant, since mostly Chinese people work in Chinese restaurants. They ignored the fact that those restaurants are usually family run and A&F is traded on the stock exchange. :P
While these T-shirts don't offend me, I think that it's pretty typical of their sleezy company, and I'm glad these women had the boycott. Money talks, and oftentime, that's the ONLY way to deal with these huge corporations.
Issy, I'm sad to say that I think your concerns are completely valid. A line of t-shirts that is making one guy MEGA-tons of money sends out messages like, "Boys are stupid - Throw Rocks at them", "The stupid factory - Where boys are made", "Boys are dumb - cut off their thumb", which are marketed to girls ages 7-13. That kind of disrespect between genders is completely uncalled for and really shouldn't be encouraged just so some guy and his company can make huge bucks.
Here's a news article about the company I wrote about in my previous post:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4099643/
More on their racial descrimination suit:
http://www.afjustice.com/
Quote:
Originally posted by Ismenia
I agree there are FAR worse out there. But my 12 year old neice shops there and I certainly wouldn't want her walking around with one of those shirts on. I might be sensitive about the topic, but I think it is the "mother" coming out in me. I first saw the slogans and chuckled but then I thought. Would I want my daughter wearing something like that? Any of you mothers or fathers for that matter out there agree?
I have a sister that is close to the same age as your niece, I would kill her if she shopped there.
Maybe I'm being paranoid, but it scares me that a court can order a company to hire a certain percentage of minority applicants. That having been said, I eagerly await the day when Fubu gets ordered to bring in a bunch of us crackers, because I keep not getting that coveted cashier job.
Why does this scare you? The federal government (and some states) have laws that forbid job discrimination based on race, sex, age, etc... So if a company discriminates based upon race what is the Court to do? Smile and nod? That would defeat the purpose of the legislation.Quote:
Originally posted by Darion
Maybe I'm being paranoid, but it scares me that a court can order a company to hire a certain percentage of minority applicants. That having been said, I eagerly await the day when Fubu gets ordered to bring in a bunch of us crackers, because I keep not getting that coveted cashier job.
Now if you think the Fed or State shouldnt have this power, that's a seperate argument. But they have been using it in other areas for decades ---> think affirmative action.
I think this is just stupid. I shop at A&F. I wear their tshirts, I think they are really funny! If people don't want their kids shopping there, tell them not to. Tell them you don't want that clothing in your house. Give your child some discipline. Sheesh. I didn't start shopping there until I was 18 because I knew better. I got the fear of god (not meant as a religious thing) drilled into me when I was little and I knew my parents wouldn't appreciate me wearing that stuff. I think the real issue here is that a lot of parents just have absolutely no control over their kids anymore.
*prances off in her "Don't call me a cowgirl til you see me ride" tshirt*
Thanks for the additional information, Dal! I had no idea HOW sleezy they were! If I am not mistaken, Abercrombie and Fitch was bought out by The Limited Corporation some time back. I read in one of those articles they were based in New Albany Ohio, which is where The Limited is based. I won't be shopping there anymore either. Not that I did anyway, but my neice won't be getting any A&F Xmas gifts from there this year!
Quote:
Originally posted by Kyla
I think this is just stupid. I shop at A&F. I wear their tshirts, I think they are really funny! If people don't want their kids shopping there, tell them not to. Tell them you don't want that clothing in your house. Give your child some discipline. Sheesh. I didn't start shopping there until I was 18 because I knew better. I got the fear of god (not meant as a religious thing) drilled into me when I was little and I knew my parents wouldn't appreciate me wearing that stuff. I think the real issue here is that a lot of parents just have absolutely no control over their kids anymore.
*prances off in her "Don't call me a cowgirl til you see me ride" tshirt*
I totally agree with you Kyla that parents need to control their children and set limits. But I think some of these companys are purposely targetting young age groups, and that doesn't set well with me. An adult can go and do what they please, in my book. (Well within the law and all) But when young children are being manipulated this way, it just makes me angry. And obviously this company has other issues that make it not very reputuable.
In response to Gillan, the reason this scares me is because it's another sketchy way of legislating common sense. Instead of saying that employers are not allowed to discriminate based upon race, gender, et cetera, they are in effect being ordered to have at least X% minorities employed at their business. There is a difference.
This just smacks of the fiasco years ago (might have just been a New England thing) involving police and fire departments lowering the minimum test scores for and giving favorable placement to minority applicants so as to make for a more diverse (and less skilled?) force. In that kind of scenario, everything suffers except political correctness.
I understand that having a stupid dispatcher isn't the same as having a stupid cashier at A&F, because God knows there are enough of both and harm is minimal. And yet, in the end I believe everyone pays the price once you get that idiot Sergeant/Captain or Regional Director of Marketing/Loss Prevention because you were muscled into being diverse.
I find it kind of comical that you say "targetting young age groups" like it's Marlboro or Camel. What about Baby Gap? Don't they target kids? Jesus, we'd better start a petition!Quote:
I totally agree with you Kyla that parents need to control their children and set limits. But I think some of these companys are purposely targetting young age groups, and that doesn't set well with me. An adult can go and do what they please, in my book. (Well within the law and all) But when young children are being manipulated this way, it just makes me angry. And obviously this company has other issues that make it not very reputuable.
Your parents -can- make you get rid of something they deem inappropriate and there will not be so much as a single nicotine fit. The issue is more that people are too lazy to do anything about it. I have a hard time sympathizing with someone who says that their child is being coerced into wearing offensive clothes by the big, mean, faceless corporations. Ground them, for God's sake. Better yet, STOP GIVING THEM MONEY! I didn't have a dime of my own in my pocket until I turned 16 and could work legally in Massachusetts. This made it exceptionally hard for me to purchase fascist regalia as a ten year old.
Amen.Quote:
Originally posted by Darion
Ground them, for God's sake. Better yet, STOP GIVING THEM MONEY!
I'm not shocked by their slogans, but that people will dish out a lotta money for them. $50 for a t-shirt? Are you on really cheap drugs? I thought, when I went shopping reciently in the States, "I'll get an ambercrombie shirt. I love the vintage look and they have them". I got in there and holy crap, like I'd pay that much for a t-shirt. The hoodies were like $125. If you're willing to pay that much then you'd damn sure better like the slogan. They make the Gap look like a dollar store (which is scaaarrry). There's my opinion, though a bit off topic, I just had to point out that if people are paying that much then they must really want the slogan. They dish out the $$, they wear it, oh well. They're rich, they don't have to be PC ;) (yes, there's sarcasm there)
Darion I do not necessarily disagree with you, however, the situation isn't as you framed it. What happend is not that no minorities were applying it was that highly qualified minorities were applying (both to universities and even to "A/F"'s of the world) and were being shot down only because of their race. The Courts naturally said "Hey, that's lame.. by the way there's a law against this.. start by hiring X number of minorities to make up for what you did." Similar to if you get caught pissin on public property you have to pay a certain amount or do a certain amount of community service to make up for it.Quote:
Originally posted by Darion
In response to Gillan, the reason this scares me is because it's another sketchy way of legislating common sense. Instead of saying that employers are not allowed to discriminate based upon race, gender, et cetera, they are in effect being ordered to have at least X% minorities employed at their business. There is a difference.
This just smacks of the fiasco years ago (might have just been a New England thing) involving police and fire departments lowering the minimum test scores for and giving favorable placement to minority applicants so as to make for a more diverse (and less skilled?) force. In that kind of scenario, everything suffers except political correctness.
I understand that having a stupid dispatcher isn't the same as having a stupid cashier at A&F, because God knows there are enough of both and harm is minimal. And yet, in the end I believe everyone pays the price once you get that idiot Sergeant/Captain or Regional Director of Marketing/Loss Prevention because you were muscled into being diverse.
The test score thing for police happend in a couple other places as well. It happend in Washington DC, California, and Texas. The idea was that they wanted to "diversify" the police force but historically minorities (for a lot of reasons - such as being deprived of that college and even HS education) scored a lot lower on the standardized tests (which were put in place in the first place to keep minorities out).
While I think some of this is very, very stupid I do not think we can just say "Hey we didn't allow your entire race to ever attain a 9th grade education for 150 years, but dont worry we'll treat you as if you did." The sad fact is discrimination still exists and the effects of segregation still last. Now dont take that to be an apologist stand point, or someone who's backing people that milk the system. Im just trying to explain my standpoint.
However, I do totally agree that parents need to control their children more and that (again) I would kill my youngest sister if I saw her shopping at A/F, A/E. or even the GAP.
It is much easier said than done when you are a parent. Sure I could ground them, not let them buy or wear the clothes. BUT.. Sally down the streets mother doesn't give a shit so she is wearing this Cheap Whore t-shirt, which sends a message to all the kids in her school that it is acceptable and "cool."Quote:
Originally posted by Darion
I find it kind of comical that you say "targetting young age groups" like it's Marlboro or Camel. What about Baby Gap? Don't they target kids? Jesus, we'd better start a petition!
Your parents -can- make you get rid of something they deem inappropriate and there will not be so much as a single nicotine fit. The issue is more that people are too lazy to do anything about it. I have a hard time sympathizing with someone who says that their child is being coerced into wearing offensive clothes by the big, mean, faceless corporations. Ground them, for God's sake. Better yet, STOP GIVING THEM MONEY! I didn't have a dime of my own in my pocket until I turned 16 and could work legally in Massachusetts. This made it exceptionally hard for me to purchase fascist regalia as a ten year old.
Ok your Baby Gap example is lame, you know exactly what I mean about Targeting them. WHY on earth would you market a t-shirt for a 12 year old that says... "Who needs brains when you have these?" across her chest! Baby gaps targets them for onesies... those I highly doubt you even know what that is.
I do not accept this -at all-, and it all folds back onto parental laziness. This implies that parents are totally unwilling to restrict their children. If your mother tells you "You can't wear that, it makes you look trashy" enough, you will soon associate whatever 'that' is with trashy. So let the girls who want to look like a pack of whores look like a pack of whores, and let the rest of them get on with their lives.Quote:
It is much easier said than done when you are a parent. Sure I could ground them, not let them buy or wear the clothes. BUT.. Sally down the streets mother doesn't give a shit so she is wearing this Cheap Whore t-shirt, which sends a message to all the kids in her school that it is acceptable and "cool."
Your sensationalist nonsense is lame. "OMGOMGOMG they're targetting kids!" is a line typically reserved for the tobacco industry, who sells a product that is physically addictive and will kill you. Any store that sells children's-sized clothes targets children, regardless of the message they bear. I am always surprised and disgusted to find out how fast everyone is to blame "The Industry" (whatever the industry may be) for corrupting the youth of America. No matter how offensive the clothes, it is impossible for it to be the fault of the clothes that someone's children are a mess.Quote:
Ok your Baby Gap example is lame, you know exactly what I mean about Targeting them. WHY on earth would you market a t-shirt for a 12 year old that says... "Who needs brains when you have these?" across her chest!
If the parents did not -buy- (or allow the kids to buy) the clothes, we would not even be talking about this. All other arguments fall by the wayside. The bottom line is that parents are getting more and more lazy as time goes by, and their kids are running wild. This is just something else to blame so that it's not their fault.
It certainly does seem like every day a new law is proposed or a new group is formed to "protect the children."Quote:
Originally posted by Darion
If the parents did not -buy- (or allow the kids to buy) the clothes, we would not even be talking about this. All other arguments fall by the wayside. The bottom line is that parents are getting more and more lazy as time goes by, and their kids are running wild. This is just something else to blame so that it's not their fault.
Not every problem your family faces can be solved by new legislation or a new advocacy group. Some things really are a matter of personal irresponsibility on the part of parents.
Well my sensastionalism might be lame, but someone has to stand up someday somewhere and say "enough is enough" Just like the women and girls boycotting it. Girls, young women and adult women are bombarded from a very young age with images that are demeaning and degrading. Images that tell us what is beautiful, ie.. sickly thin, big breasts, supermodels. So, you might say.... "oh ignore it, parents need to monitor what their children see." Well that is easier said then done when it is EVERYWHERE you turn. Why do you think millions of women in the United States have such poor self-esteems, eating disorders, butchering their bodies with plastic surgery, because they can't measure up to the standards we are force fed. On the other hand you could say the same for stereotypical male images that we see every day.
I might be idealistic, but I do think "responisble" Industry has some sort of obligation. Just like the cigarette industry is now paying millions of dollars for all of their misdeeds. Sure it might not be physically killing them, but it does psychological damage.
Ok.. I can now step down from my feministist soap box now
Except that is exactly what he said. Don't buy it and don't give your kids the money to buy it. Tell them no. You're the parent. Drive them to a bridge.Quote:
Originally posted by Ismenia
someone has to stand up someday somewhere and say "enough is enough" Just like the women and girls boycotting it.
I'm actually shocked by all this. I had no idea that these slogans exist. I don't like supporting companies that are motivated with such sleazy tactics, but at the same time I do monitor what my daughter picks out to wear because I AM the one who pays for it.
My daughter just turned 11 years old this summer and she does desire to wear this line of clothing but thank God she wouldn't find those sorts of slogans appealing. The only things she ever picks out are articles of clothing with just the name/logo and no slogans. I have not seen any derrogatory slogans yet, but then again Florida is probably behind the times.
Also, since we always shop together (and I expect this to change within 4 years or so which is the age I started shopping with friends instead of my mother), whenever I see something off-color, no matter what company, I mention my reasons for offense or displeasure to her and she echos the same.
On the way home from work I stopped to pick up milk, and ended up in line behind a middle-aged woman and her apparent daughter, about the age of your daughter, wearing one of these shirts.
It said crack whore in block letters and had a cartoon of a buxom woman mooning me.
The only thing I have to say about this is.... I want that shirt!Quote:
Originally posted by Kyla
*prances off in her "Don't call me a cowgirl til you see me ride" tshirt*
*prances off in her "Boys make great pets - every girl should have one" t-shirt*
The most degrading thing of all about A&F is how much all that crap COSTS.
Hmm. I just found this thread and I always thought I was a good mom. *shrug* I just bought my daughter 2 tshirts there. One says "I'm not with stupid anymore" Bahahahah that still cracks me up. The other says "I had a nightmare I was a brunette" Both my daughters are lovely natural blonds. Under this red dye I've been wearing for many many years I AM a brunette. I still thought the shirt was funny.
Obviously I think sleaze is funny.
Obviously my daughters and I have a warped and twisted sense of humor.
I wonder if it's in the blood or if I have corrupted them by my terribly inappropriate and irrelevant sense of humor and outlook on life in general.
Nature or nurture...here we go again.
Hey maybe they make a tshirt for me that says "Unfit mother...too late to take the kids away now! They're already ruined" :devil
Well, neither of those tee-shirts sexualizes the wearer, and neither do either of them advocate hate/violence towards boys, so I don't think they are anything at all like the tee-shirts that people are complaining about.
Also, I seem to recall that your kids are older than the middle school age that the girl wearing the "crack whore" tee shirt I mentioned was.
If I saw an older teen or adult woman wearing a tee shirt like that, it wouldn't bother me at all the way it did seeing a 12-year-old looking girl advertising being a crack whore while out and about with her MOTHER.
Yes, there are a lot of lazy parents out there, but to assume that every parent out there is lazy is silly. There are GOOD parents out there as well as lazy ones.
Ismenia is being a GOOD parent by standing up and saying, "I'm NOT buying their lame shit from their lame company anymore." That's how you make a stand in a capitalist society. This doesn't stop the fact that there are lazy parents out there who will let their kids run around in what basically amounts to a raicst t-shirt.
I'm not very sensitive to racial issues. I'm not even very sensitive to feminist issues because for me, femninism is about choice and equal opportunity. However, when a company is repeatedly racist at several levels or repeatedly sexist in several different levels, I'm gonna stop spending my money there. Just because I'm not an activist doesn't mean that I want to support their crap. With issues like racism and sexism, I think we all have to be very careful what we teach our young population as a whole. You can always say, "It's on the parents," but there's all different levels of parenting. You aren't going to change the shitty ones, and the ones who care enough to say something are the ones who get the "shitty parent" speech heaped on them. The problem with allowing people to go too far is simply that there's almost always a backlash. Backlashes are a bad thing.
To put it in gaming terms, a backlash is like overnerfing!
I didn't start this thread to be noticed as any sort of good parent (I could be beathing my children as I type this.. though I am not! ::giggles::) or to say any of your are unfit. I just wanted to start a discussion on the responsibilites that Corporate America has or perhaps you feel don't have in regards to this sort of things.
Actually Ysadri those shirts don't bother me in the least. I think the "I am not with Stupid anymore" is kinda cute. Though I do think that Crack Whore one Graeblyn mentioned is awful!!!
I think its kinda funny, my friends and I always use them and there close as targets hehe. Oh its one of those "Am?bercrombie and fitch boys" They are preppy clothes for cryin out loud. And yeah they are expensive 50 bucks for a faded shirt that looks a couple years old. I havent even really noticed all the logo's you mentioned and I didnt know about any of this boycotting stuff!