Decline in Civility and Increase in Hypersensitivity (and Political Correctness)

I'm not sure where I am going with this, as it is a rough idea. I'll open with two postulates:

1) There is a noticeable decline in civility in our culture (mainly US, but perhaps elsewhere also) over the past few decades.

2) There is a noticeable increase in hypersensitivity (and political correctness) as far as things people get offended by, make a huge issue out of, etc.

I think both of these things are true, and both of them are extremely negative. I also wonder to what degree they feed off of each other.

Here is an example of both phenomena at work:

Woman bounced from Southwest flight for T-shirt

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A Washington state woman intends to press a civil-rights case against Southwest Airlines for booting her off a flight in Reno after fellow passengers complained about a message on her T-shirt.

Lorrie Heasley, of Woodland, Wash., was halfway home on a flight Tuesday that began in Los Angeles, wearing a T-shirt with the pictures of President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and a phrase similar to the popular film, Meet the Fockers.

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And she felt she had the right to wear it.

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After several conversations with flight attendants, Heasley agreed to cover the words by cuddling up with a sweatshirt. When the sweatshirt slipped while she was trying to sleep, she was ordered to wear her T-shirt inside-out or leave. The couple chose to leave.

McInnis said the rules filed with the FAA say the airline will deny boarding to any customer whose conduct is offensive, abusive, disorderly or violent or for clothing that is "lewd, obscene, or patently offensive."

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Heasley said she is in touch with ACLU lawyers in Seattle. She wants Southwest to reimburse the couple for the last leg of their trip and pay for her gasoline, a $68 rental car from Avis and a $70 hotel bill.

Before leaving the plane, she said she was told the airline would reimburse her for the tickets for the last leg of the flight. After they got off the plane, they were told they'd be reimbursed only for the taxes on the tickets. McInnis said customer services officials are looking into the matter.

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Before someone tries to get cheeky, she left the plane during a lay over.

Where do I even begin?

1) Wearing a shirt like that is very uncivil. Anybody with a clue is going to know that many people will find it offensive. An airplane is not a place to make a political statement. It is a place for order and calm. There is too much at stake to have people taking it upon themselves to be clever or witty. That is why for decades it has been illegal to joke about bombs and such in an airport or on an airplane.

2) To the people who complained, I can only say "Life sucks, get a cowl." Seriously you bunch of jelly spined pussies, is that really such a devasating message? I realize and understand that our extremely vitriolic political climate (along with constant Bush bashing from every single corner of the media) makes people who like Bush & Co. hypersensitive. But the message on that shirt is, ultimately, very minor. One would truly have to be very hypersensitive to get offended by that shirt.

3) For the love of god woman, it was dumb enough to wear the shirt, but then you cannot even go into the bathroom and turn it inside out? Ridiculous.

4) Civil rights case? Give me a break. The airplane is private property. There is no state action. That is pure silliness. A civil law suit for damages (getting her plane ticket and costs reimbursed) is fine. But a civil rights case is crazy. She claims she is only trying to get reimbursed, but the fact that it is a civil rights case implies, to me, that much greater damages will eventually be sought.

5) Southwest: Is it really so damn hard to just reimburse the woman her ~$200 for the flight she did not receive, rental, and hotel room?

We see here an example of what I was alluding to at the beginning. There are two things present at the same time- either of which would have prevented this from becoming a "situation."

The woman should not have worn the shirt (civility).

The people on the plane should have just ignored it rather than complaining to the stewardesses (hypersensitivity).

So which comes first?

I really don't know. But what I do know, is that these two concepts are in a death spiral that is making both things worse. Our entire culture suffers greatly as a result.

The problem is a fundamental lack of respect. People no longer say Please or Thank you. They don't hold doors for others. People completely ignore common decency and acts of politeness. Of course this isn't helped at all by the reactions many get when they do try to be polite.

You just can't win in this world.

I have to agree. We're definitely in a "me first" society. I think some people in this day and age just wait to be insulted and almost yearn to be offended; in order to feel better about themselves at someone else's expense.
But when it comes to politicians, any of them, I have no problem whatsoever with their continual ridicule; or public protest by its citizens, be it on T-shirts, soapboxes or whatever. I think Americans politicians have it easy when compared to others from say the UK or Canada. Granted, they are certain times and places where it'd be in bad taste to do and say certain things(like that student asking the US soldier if he was raped); however, that T shirt would make me laugh.
It seems alot of people are intolerant of our leaders being satirized, ridiculed or questioned in serious ways. I personally believe that's a ridiculous position to have.

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Originally posted by kestra
But when it comes to politicians, any of them, I have no problem whatsoever with their continual ridicule; or public protest...

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Ridicule is one thing, but continual ridicule is another. I also would like to point out that though a lot of people jam up politicians as if they were universally bad folks, the fact is that if you ever try to sit people down and ask them what THEY would like done, the disagreements and the vitriole are just as strong among the folks as it is in the media and among policiticians, or at least that's been my experience.

In the USA, every single one of us has as much right as the next person to become a politician and change the world. Interesting how few of us want to weather that sort of challenge, given how strongly we all claim to feel about certain things.

I think the open season concept on politicians is a big part of the problem of getting to issues based elections and away from the politics of personal popularity.

That's not to say I disrespect the idea that policitians need to be held accountable, or that there are not times when the ridicule may be well deserved, but just as a policy in general I have to disagree.

I agree both sides are being ridiculous.

With regards to the woman and her shirt..big freakin deal. If she were wearing a shirt that said "Fuck Iraq" no one woulda said a word to her. Despite the lack of civility or respect this generation has acheived, you have to find it a bit petty that the passengers had nothing better to do, like read the SkyMall catalog! Sometimes I think this country is turing so PC that sooner or later we won't be a free country but censored in everything so as not to offend any living thing on the planet. Secondly, to the air staff and passenegers on the Southwest flight....GET A SENSE OF HUMOR.

This should't even be a newsworthy item, I feel. Maybe if she were wearing a shirt that says "I am hiding C4 in my hoohoo and I'm not afraid to use it, take the plane hostage and crash it into Fergie's (from the black eye'd peas) house" or something of that ilk, I could understand the hulaballoo. I don't know who is more annoying, the chick, Southwest, the passengers or the freakin media for giving this a spotlight.

Call me old fashioned, but I feel like wearing "Fuck" anything in public is a little on the rude side. This whole issue might have been resolved a few decades ago by the person being sent packing back home to take off the offending shirt on a disturbance of the peace rap or some such.

Which incidentally makes me wonder if a big part of the problem isn't the rejection of simple common courtesy by society in general. Why ARE the airlines and the passengers and everyone else in the wrong here? One person pisses off an entire airplane full of people and somehow it is everyone elses fault too?

Maybe you can't have it both ways. Maybe you either have to have a polite society where occasionally people land in jail at least for a day or so for simply being rude, or one where people are allowed to ride the ragged edge without getting into legal trouble, but not both.

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Originally posted by kestra

But when it comes to politicians, any of them, I have no problem whatsoever with their continual ridicule; or public protest by its citizens, be it on T-shirts, soapboxes or whatever.

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I disagree. The reason I disagree is because this kind of treatment dramatically worsens the quality of individual you get who is willing to run for office.

What the media is doing to George Bush right now is ridiculous. Let us just use ONE publication as an example: Newsweek.

I just got my Newsweek for this week, and 3 out of 3 comics in the Perspective section (the most popular section of the magazine) are anti-Bush. Almost every single quote on the page was also anti-Bush. That is supposedly a page of interesting quotes from around the country, and yet they are 100% anti-Bush. How is that possible?

Since Bush was elected, they've given him a down arrow in their little weekly "movers and shakers" category about 95% of the time.

Last week, the cover was "Iraq War + Katrina - Lower Taxes = ???" which totally ignores the fact that we are actually bringing in more tax REVENUE now than before the tax cuts. That's just outright lying. If they had any interest in being honest, that would have been "Iraq War + Katrina + Higher Tax Revenue = ???"

The degree to which Katrina was blamed on Bush was crazy and would NEVER have happened if Clinton had been President.

Let me come right out and admit that I dislike George Bush. I cannot wait for his presidency to be over. I don't think he is horrible, I don't think he is evil, I don't think he hates "blacks/poor/insert group here", and I don't think he is a liar, but I think he is a poor leader who fails to inspire and fails to champion bold, grand ideas and solutions to problems. He is also addicted to buying votes through crazy spending and crony back patting.

But even though I have an unfavorable opinion of him, I am still sick and fucking tired of the constant Bush bashing. I highly doubt I am the only one.

I bet there are a lot of people out there who would be amazingly good and productive Presidents, Senators, and Congressmen who say "Screw that. I have better things to do with my life than put up with that treatment."

We are the ones who suffer because of it.

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Originally posted by Lokrian
Call me old fashioned, but I feel like wearing "Fuck" anything in public is a little on the rude side.

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I totally agree with this. I'm tired of people cursing without regard to the people around them, whether it be verbally or on a t-shirt. People who do this like to claim that it's "just words", but if it's "just words", then it would be just as easy not to say them in public.

It's so unpleasant to be in a crowded area or in a restaurant and hear someone cursing happily into their cell phone. People who go around screaming "fuck you" at each other in public are extremely annoying as well.

It's like the old saying "I wouldn't be a member of any club that would have me".

I can't trust a president that wants to be president.

At least not in todays society. They have to be masochists.

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Originally posted by Gromgor

I can't trust a president that wants to be president.

At least not in todays society. They have to be masochists.

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It really sort of depends on the motive, doesn't it? If you see a situation and you care and want to change it for the better, then it takes alot of courage to step up and put yourself out there for all to criticize when you are making the decisions that need to be made.

A President is just that, someone who steps up to the plate for one reason or another. It's not necessarily that they expect to get beat up. I think for the most part they really do want to fix the world and expect that most citizens wish to do the same and put aside their own biases.

I honestly believe that the reason we don't have the kind of leaders that we had in the past is because those with true hearts and brilliant minds do not have the will and/or self-confidence to withstand those beatings that we as a society promote by ralling behind the sideline hecklers who gain a certain superiority from putting down folks that step up to begin with.

I honestly see this as an epidemic brought on by and exacerbated by the media that we have today which is totally void of any public responsibility and lacking in any ethical standards... and God forbid me for saying this, but lacking in the ability to report rather than judge for one side or the other in hopes to gain ratings.

Did I mention that I HATE the media?

I hope I didn't go off topic, but if I did I'm sorry. :)

Maybe a word of hope is due here though. There are, no doubt in my mind, still some great leaders out there, and if they are willing to risk their very lives the way they have in the past, I think maybe a little heckling from the crowd is not going to keep them down for long.

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Originally posted by Pyrosama
I honestly see this as an epidemic brought on by and exacerbated by the media that we have today which is totally void of any public responsibility and lacking in any ethical standards... and God forbid me for saying this, but lacking in the ability to report rather than judge for one side or the other in hopes to gain ratings.

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A big problem with this is that people believe they have a right to unrestricted speech and that the press has unrestricted freedoms. If anyone tries to tell them they are wrong they throw up the "Freedom of the Press" flag and any attempts to create a decent standard is reduced to courtroom bickering.

Freedom of Speech means that you won't be jailed for speaking out against the president. It means that your words, even if against the political majority, have an equal right to be heard. It DOES NOT mean that you are allowed to go around saying "Fuck Bush" Vulgarity is not a guaranteed right. However voicing your political ideals is. People look for loopholes to ideals. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press. These two things were created at a time where anything said against the King would get you killed. Their necessity in our society has not diminished. The value of them has, however.

People need to realize that they do not have the right to intentionally be offensive. Until we, as a society, begin to shun, boycott, ignore, whatever, those who behave in such a manner things will not change.

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With regards to the woman and her shirt..big freakin deal. If she were wearing a shirt that said "Fuck Iraq" no one woulda said a word to her.

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If she were a guy and I caught her, I probably would have given the hypothetical male (depending on his size relative to my own) anything from a polite earful to asking him what time it was and then sucker punching him when he went to look at his watch.

As she was a woman, I would have settled for making a scene. Call me old fashioned.

I have no idea why people think someone should quietly accept stuff like that.

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Originally posted by Darion

I have no idea why people think someone should quietly accept stuff like that.

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Because we have gotten to a weird point in our society where we think Freedom of Speech means freedom from consequences.

When a celebrity speaks up and makes an idiot of him or herself, and then people avoid their movies, or tv shows, or CDs, or whatever, you get people all over the media criticising the masses for not letting someone have freedom of speech. The celebrity will also then piss and moan and whine and cry that they are not being allowed freedom of speech.

No, they got their freedom. But then the public got their freedom to express their disapproval.

"Meet the fockers"

Uh-huh, that's borderline treason right there.

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I have no idea why people think someone should quietly accept stuff like that.

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Oh, I don't know -- because we live in a society where a diversity of political opinion is supposedly cherished, rather than frowned upon?

Punching someone in the face for expressing dislike of the president is absurd.

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No, they got their freedom. But then the public got their freedom to express their disapproval.

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There is a huge difference between saying to someone, "I don't like your shirt" and getting them kicked off a plane.

If I wore a shirt saying "Impeach Bush" would you consider that 'Uncivil' behavior? What about the "Let's not elect him in 2004 either" t-shirts that were popular before last election?

How about "No more democrats, no more socialism", with the C in democrats drawn as a soviet hammer-and-sickle? I've seen people wearing all of these shirts in public (albeit the last was home-made). Should we refrain from shirts that make ANY sort of political statement?

See, I don't have a problem with people wearing something like "Impeach Bush" or "No more democrats, no more socialism." I do have a problem with people wearing things like, "Fuck you" or "Shut your mouth, bitch."

The t-shirt the lady was wearing was "Meet the Fuckers" not "Meet the Fockers". Why do I have a problem with this? Because I don't want to be forced to look at profanity all day. If I saw this kind of profanity on a company's billboard, I would be raising all kinds of hell with the company. I honestly don't think that the average citizen should be allowed to inflict that on me in a public place either. When my children learn how to read, I do not want to have to explain to them what that T-shirt means. I do not want them to go around calling ANYONE "fuckers".

This is simply a matter of decency, and I honestly don't think it has much to do with politics. I hate the shirts that say, "I'm a bitch." that so many teeny-boppers wear. Not only is it a profanity, it also sends a horrible message out to women.

Politics is not some sacred grounds that cannot be tread upon by people who wish for decency in a public setting. It should not be protected at all costs. Feel free to express your political opinions. Just keep it in the realm of non-profanity. There are probably 20 words that are considered profanities in the English language. There are billions of other words that we can use to express our political ideas.

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Oh, I don't know -- because we live in a society where a diversity of political opinion is supposedly cherished, rather than frowned upon?

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If I walked around with a shirt that read "Check out this asshole" with your picture on it, what would you do? Bow down because I have the right to call you an asshole?

Further, (had you actually read my very short post) you should have noticed that I was commenting on the specific phrase that Raeghin mentioned (being "Fuck Iraq") rather than something mildly critical of the president.

I suspect that you are bright enough to understand the difference between "Meet the Fuckers" and "Let's not elect Bush in '04" as far as public impropriety is concerned, and are being deliberately dense so as to make some kind of point. I am just not sure what the point is.

My own post was not directed toward people making political statements in general, but rather the one that I mentioned.

I believe that if someone has enough stones to wear something wildly offensive in public, then they clearly have enough stones to suck it up when someone takes offense and goes right upside their head. Besides, they have the right to defend themselves, don't they?

Dude, it's all part of being polite... you don't scream obscenities in public, and wearing a shirt like that is pretty much the same and so of course you're going to get called on it. It turns into a big stupid deal because it's got politicians on it, but man, you wear a shirt like that and you're doing it for the attention. Take the fucking consequences.

Now if it had said "meet the fockers" with the same images, then it might be different. Still a stupid issue, but different. But it's pretty clear to me that "fuckers" is considered obscene/offensive.

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McInnis said the rules filed with the FAA say the airline will deny boarding to any customer whose conduct is offensive, abusive, disorderly or violent or for clothing that is "lewd, obscene, or patently offensive."

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Stupid stupid issue. I hate when people do something for attention, knowing there'll be consequences, and then turn it into a political issue. Pssh.

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Originally posted by Darion
Further, (had you actually read my very short post) you should have noticed that I was commenting on the specific phrase that Raeghin mentioned (being "Fuck Iraq") rather than something mildly critical of the president.

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Maybe I should have rephrased it as "Fuck Insurgents".

I referrenced "Fuck Iraq" because about 20 years ago during the Iran Hostage Crisis, many people walked around with Mickey Mouse shirts that said "Fuck Iran", you probably do not remember this, which is why I brought the phrase more up-to-date.


Wearing shirts like that in public, rude (I agree it is rude) or not, is a constitutional right. (Note I said in public). Rights that many of us have defended or are defending....Land of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave.

The problem is that many are too caught up in making a political tatement to understand that freedom of speech does not mean freedom of the consequences that might follow by citizens/peers. The woman should have just turned the shirt inside out. The passengers should have just gotten over their tender sensibilities and understood it was likely intended to be a humorous shirt. The media shouldn't have given this woman the publicity she did not deserve because she was ridiculously stubborn.

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Stupid stupid issue. I hate when people do something for attention, knowing there'll be consequences, and then turn it into a political issue. Pssh.

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I couldn't agree more.

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Originally posted by Raeghin

Wearing shirts like that in public, rude (I agree it is rude) or not, is a constitutional right. (Note I said in public). Rights that many of us have defended or are defending....Land of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave.

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Actually, this is the popular, but very incorrect, interpretation of the freedom of speech amendment. You do not have a RIGHT to be vulgar and rude in public. You have a right to speak your mind and not be thrown in jail by the government for it. You are allowed to speak out against the leaders of a nation without being worried that you'll get tried for treason for it. (Yes, this is something that still happens in other countries.)

Freedom of speech does NOT guarantee, in any way, that you get to go around being vulgar, rude, or vilely antagonistic and be free of criticism, anger, or ridicule. Just as that person can buy a t-shirt that says "Kill White People", people have the the right to ban stuff like that from their restaurants, their stores, or even their plane. You do not have the right to be offensive or make vulgar political statement above the rights of citizens who don't want to support that kind of vulgarity in their place of business.

Freedom of speech does not mean that your desire to speak your mind comes above someone else's desire to tell you off if you speak your mind. That's a ridiculous interpretation of the 1st Amendment.

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The problem is that many are too caught up in making a political statement to understand that freedom of speech does not mean freedom of the consequences that might follow by citizens/peers.

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I understand that, which is why I stated the above. Far worse and far more vulgar has been advertised on Tshirts without it's wearer being charged or convicted of treason. The repercussions do not come from the government but rather regular civilians and vusiness ownders that view the content.

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Originally posted by Raeghin
Wearing shirts like that in public, rude (I agree it is rude) or not, is a constitutional right. (Note I said in public). Rights that many of us have defended or are defending....Land of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave.

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Something about this disturbs me. I tried to look up the concept of local standards of decency, and while they still exist they seem to have been stamped into the dirt from 1935-1965 or so. Still, if people wanted it bad enough, that sort of thing could be reveresed. Point being I wasn't really all that concerned with defending people's right to wear vulgar tee shirts when I was in the Navy. It's not the end of the world, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if things got back to the point where the general outlook of the public on vulgarity was once again so universally dismal that it became practical once more to have laws concerning that sort of thing. I don't think there is an absolute right to vulgarity even in public.

It's an "evolving standard of decency"! LOL

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Originally posted by Dalaena
The t-shirt the lady was wearing was "Meet the Fuckers" not "Meet the Fockers". Why do I have a problem with this? Because I don't want to be forced to look at profanity all day. If I saw this kind of profanity on a company's billboard, I would be raising all kinds of hell with the company. I honestly don't think that the average citizen should be allowed to inflict that on me in a public place either. When my children learn how to read, I do not want to have to explain to them what that T-shirt means. I do not want them to go around calling ANYONE "fuckers".

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Well, see now the original article didn't exactly make it clear that this was the phrase.

"a phrase similar to the popular film, Meet the Fockers."

Let's say I glossed over the 'phrase similar to' bit.

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Originally posted by Dalaena
Actually, this is the popular, but very incorrect, interpretation of the freedom of speech amendment. You do not have a RIGHT to be vulgar and rude in public. You have a right to speak your mind and not be thrown in jail by the government for it. You are allowed to speak out against the leaders of a nation without being worried that you'll get tried for treason for it. (Yes, this is something that still happens in other countries.)

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I started to think more about this last night and thought maybe society...ok..lets narrow that down to -I- am desensitized to the word FUCK as vulgar or obscene when used in certain contexts. To me, its just a word, a rude one, but its so over used for just about everything that her shirt became "Meet the Idiots" to me. Too me, wearing that shirt is within her rights because I have practically negated the vulgarity of that word in the context it was used.

Which brought me to this question. Where do we draw the line on vulgarity and decency today? Has anyone else looked at this and said "Big freaken deal...lighten up?" because they are basically tuned out of the vulgarity of certain words? Have we, as a society, made certain vulgarities more commomplace and acceptable?

I don't know if that's the point or not, whether or not people are getting used to more and more vulgarity. I think the point is that most people have a limit if some sort, somewhere deep down in there, of how much of that they want to be confronted with day in and day out, and that there used to be something of just common decency and courtesy that people knew not to be vulgar at the very least in certain company.

Now, people have a RIGHT to be vulgar as a form of self expression, which triggers a RIGHT to be incensed by it as a form of self expression, which triggers a RIGHT to get all defenseive and combative over any little thing you may have done that made others, even the vast majority of others, angry, thus a RIGHT to sue and a RIGHT to tie up the courts defending your RIGHTS.

The right to wear "Fucker" on your tee shirt.........

Guh :cow

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Now, people have a RIGHT to be vulgar as a form of self expression, which triggers a RIGHT to be incensed by it as a form of self expression, which triggers a RIGHT to get all defenseive and combative over any little thing you may have done that made others, even the vast majority of others, angry, thus a RIGHT to sue and a RIGHT to tie up the courts defending your RIGHTS.

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RIGHT on!