Maybe a word of hope is due here though. There are, no doubt in my mind, still some great leaders out there, and if they are willing to risk their very lives the way they have in the past, I think maybe a little heckling from the crowd is not going to keep them down for long.
A big problem with this is that people believe they have a right to unrestricted speech and that the press has unrestricted freedoms. If anyone tries to tell them they are wrong they throw up the "Freedom of the Press" flag and any attempts to create a decent standard is reduced to courtroom bickering.Quote:
Originally posted by Pyrosama
I honestly see this as an epidemic brought on by and exacerbated by the media that we have today which is totally void of any public responsibility and lacking in any ethical standards... and God forbid me for saying this, but lacking in the ability to report rather than judge for one side or the other in hopes to gain ratings.
Freedom of Speech means that you won't be jailed for speaking out against the president. It means that your words, even if against the political majority, have an equal right to be heard. It DOES NOT mean that you are allowed to go around saying "Fuck Bush" Vulgarity is not a guaranteed right. However voicing your political ideals is. People look for loopholes to ideals. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press. These two things were created at a time where anything said against the King would get you killed. Their necessity in our society has not diminished. The value of them has, however.
People need to realize that they do not have the right to intentionally be offensive. Until we, as a society, begin to shun, boycott, ignore, whatever, those who behave in such a manner things will not change.
If she were a guy and I caught her, I probably would have given the hypothetical male (depending on his size relative to my own) anything from a polite earful to asking him what time it was and then sucker punching him when he went to look at his watch.Quote:
With regards to the woman and her shirt..big freakin deal. If she were wearing a shirt that said "Fuck Iraq" no one woulda said a word to her.
As she was a woman, I would have settled for making a scene. Call me old fashioned.
I have no idea why people think someone should quietly accept stuff like that.
Because we have gotten to a weird point in our society where we think Freedom of Speech means freedom from consequences.Quote:
Originally posted by Darion
I have no idea why people think someone should quietly accept stuff like that.
When a celebrity speaks up and makes an idiot of him or herself, and then people avoid their movies, or tv shows, or CDs, or whatever, you get people all over the media criticising the masses for not letting someone have freedom of speech. The celebrity will also then piss and moan and whine and cry that they are not being allowed freedom of speech.
No, they got their freedom. But then the public got their freedom to express their disapproval.
"Meet the fockers"
Uh-huh, that's borderline treason right there.
Oh, I don't know -- because we live in a society where a diversity of political opinion is supposedly cherished, rather than frowned upon?Quote:
I have no idea why people think someone should quietly accept stuff like that.
Punching someone in the face for expressing dislike of the president is absurd.
There is a huge difference between saying to someone, "I don't like your shirt" and getting them kicked off a plane.Quote:
No, they got their freedom. But then the public got their freedom to express their disapproval.
If I wore a shirt saying "Impeach Bush" would you consider that 'Uncivil' behavior? What about the "Let's not elect him in 2004 either" t-shirts that were popular before last election?
How about "No more democrats, no more socialism", with the C in democrats drawn as a soviet hammer-and-sickle? I've seen people wearing all of these shirts in public (albeit the last was home-made). Should we refrain from shirts that make ANY sort of political statement?
See, I don't have a problem with people wearing something like "Impeach Bush" or "No more democrats, no more socialism." I do have a problem with people wearing things like, "Fuck you" or "Shut your mouth, bitch."
The t-shirt the lady was wearing was "Meet the Fuckers" not "Meet the Fockers". Why do I have a problem with this? Because I don't want to be forced to look at profanity all day. If I saw this kind of profanity on a company's billboard, I would be raising all kinds of hell with the company. I honestly don't think that the average citizen should be allowed to inflict that on me in a public place either. When my children learn how to read, I do not want to have to explain to them what that T-shirt means. I do not want them to go around calling ANYONE "fuckers".
This is simply a matter of decency, and I honestly don't think it has much to do with politics. I hate the shirts that say, "I'm a bitch." that so many teeny-boppers wear. Not only is it a profanity, it also sends a horrible message out to women.
Politics is not some sacred grounds that cannot be tread upon by people who wish for decency in a public setting. It should not be protected at all costs. Feel free to express your political opinions. Just keep it in the realm of non-profanity. There are probably 20 words that are considered profanities in the English language. There are billions of other words that we can use to express our political ideas.
If I walked around with a shirt that read "Check out this asshole" with your picture on it, what would you do? Bow down because I have the right to call you an asshole?Quote:
Oh, I don't know -- because we live in a society where a diversity of political opinion is supposedly cherished, rather than frowned upon?
Further, (had you actually read my very short post) you should have noticed that I was commenting on the specific phrase that Raeghin mentioned (being "Fuck Iraq") rather than something mildly critical of the president.
I suspect that you are bright enough to understand the difference between "Meet the Fuckers" and "Let's not elect Bush in '04" as far as public impropriety is concerned, and are being deliberately dense so as to make some kind of point. I am just not sure what the point is.
My own post was not directed toward people making political statements in general, but rather the one that I mentioned.
I believe that if someone has enough stones to wear something wildly offensive in public, then they clearly have enough stones to suck it up when someone takes offense and goes right upside their head. Besides, they have the right to defend themselves, don't they?
Dude, it's all part of being polite... you don't scream obscenities in public, and wearing a shirt like that is pretty much the same and so of course you're going to get called on it. It turns into a big stupid deal because it's got politicians on it, but man, you wear a shirt like that and you're doing it for the attention. Take the fucking consequences.
Now if it had said "meet the fockers" with the same images, then it might be different. Still a stupid issue, but different. But it's pretty clear to me that "fuckers" is considered obscene/offensive.
Stupid stupid issue. I hate when people do something for attention, knowing there'll be consequences, and then turn it into a political issue. Pssh.Quote:
McInnis said the rules filed with the FAA say the airline will deny boarding to any customer whose conduct is offensive, abusive, disorderly or violent or for clothing that is "lewd, obscene, or patently offensive."
Maybe I should have rephrased it as "Fuck Insurgents".Quote:
Originally posted by Darion
Further, (had you actually read my very short post) you should have noticed that I was commenting on the specific phrase that Raeghin mentioned (being "Fuck Iraq") rather than something mildly critical of the president.
I referrenced "Fuck Iraq" because about 20 years ago during the Iran Hostage Crisis, many people walked around with Mickey Mouse shirts that said "Fuck Iran", you probably do not remember this, which is why I brought the phrase more up-to-date.
Wearing shirts like that in public, rude (I agree it is rude) or not, is a constitutional right. (Note I said in public). Rights that many of us have defended or are defending....Land of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave.
The problem is that many are too caught up in making a political tatement to understand that freedom of speech does not mean freedom of the consequences that might follow by citizens/peers. The woman should have just turned the shirt inside out. The passengers should have just gotten over their tender sensibilities and understood it was likely intended to be a humorous shirt. The media shouldn't have given this woman the publicity she did not deserve because she was ridiculously stubborn.
I couldn't agree more.Quote:
Stupid stupid issue. I hate when people do something for attention, knowing there'll be consequences, and then turn it into a political issue. Pssh.
Actually, this is the popular, but very incorrect, interpretation of the freedom of speech amendment. You do not have a RIGHT to be vulgar and rude in public. You have a right to speak your mind and not be thrown in jail by the government for it. You are allowed to speak out against the leaders of a nation without being worried that you'll get tried for treason for it. (Yes, this is something that still happens in other countries.)Quote:
Originally posted by Raeghin
Wearing shirts like that in public, rude (I agree it is rude) or not, is a constitutional right. (Note I said in public). Rights that many of us have defended or are defending....Land of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave.
Freedom of speech does NOT guarantee, in any way, that you get to go around being vulgar, rude, or vilely antagonistic and be free of criticism, anger, or ridicule. Just as that person can buy a t-shirt that says "Kill White People", people have the the right to ban stuff like that from their restaurants, their stores, or even their plane. You do not have the right to be offensive or make vulgar political statement above the rights of citizens who don't want to support that kind of vulgarity in their place of business.
Freedom of speech does not mean that your desire to speak your mind comes above someone else's desire to tell you off if you speak your mind. That's a ridiculous interpretation of the 1st Amendment.