Hurricane Katrina response

It takes time to mobilize a huge relief and rescue effort. However, I think some mistakes were definitely made. I think the press and politicians have run away with the issue and lost sight of where the focus should be which is on the people.

New Orleans was caught off guard. I think they've dodged so many they got lazy. Their "shelters of last resort" were obviously undermanned and understocked. They were not prepared. Because of this, time was an issue.

I've had a lot of contact with FEMA myself. Some things they did well, other things they fucked up. Over all, I can't complain much. They gave me money and eventually a place to live. I do think they could use some organization and some policies should be rethought. I'm not a Brown fan.

After Ivan, a lot of our relief reached us through the county. Prisoners cleaned debris and passed out food. They were driven through the neighborhoods and handed food, ice and water down from the prison trucks.

The National Guard was directing traffic and running PoDs (Points of Distribution for food, water and ice.) They didn't deliver and many of us had lost our cars so the prisoners were mobilized.

The Red Cross I can't possibly say enough good things about. It did take them a week to get into our neighborhood, but then they fed us two meals a day for 2 months. They gave us mops, buckets and bleach and vouchers for matresses. Volunteers I talked to were from Michigan, Indiana, California, and Kentucky. None were locals. I would expect it to take a while to get everyone and everything in place.

Power crews and tree choppers came to our aid from all over the US and Canada. I got my power back about 2 months before expected.

Katrina affected a MUCH larger area. Things will be slower, but they will happen.

With all the media focus on New Orleans, I wonder if the other affected areas are getting any assistance at all. There are other towns, other cities -- heck, other STATES hit by Katrina but we're not hearing much about them. While I realize that NO is the most drastically damaged. aren't there other areas without food, without water and without power?

Serious damage spread east to Mobile. Trees were down fully 100 miles inland in Mississipi. I haven't been south of Jackson MS since last week.

The thing is, without the worries of flooding, it will be a lot easier to begin the cleanup and rebuilding. Mississipi as a state seems to have taken the most direct hit. Places like Biloxi on the coast are devestated too, but are not nearly as big as New Orleans.

Heh, I just realized you asked if they were getting help. Yes, they are. Plus people can drive in and out of the areas fairly easily. Nothing nearly as bad as New Orleans. But they are not getting a LOT of help yet.

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/h...50909833938950

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Originally posted by Lokrian
Anyhow I hope this thread stays more or less hurricane related.

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We'll make sure that it does.

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Originally posted by Lokrian
Am I the only person who is not sure that the forced evacuation of New Orleans needs to be executed against the last holdouts? If they just don't bring in food and water, and continue to offer people help getting out, won't the biggest part of the public health risk of having people there more or less take care of itself?

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I'm not sure that a forced evacuation of New Orleans is the answer NOW. It was the answer BEFORE the hurricane hit. What's strange, though, is that a "mandatory evacuation" was declared, but people had the option of not evacuating.

If I were in the position of some of these people who stayed, *I* probably would have stayed. It's all nice and good that people are wanting to evacuate me, but how the hell will I get back? If I had the means to get out in the first place (meaning that I had a car/transportation and some money), I wouldn't have to worry about coming back. If I didn't have the money or the means to get out (which are a lot of the people who stayed), I probably would be wondering how long I would be left to rot where ever they decided to evacuate me to before they would bring me back home. Are they even going to bring me back home?

I haven't read the full details of the evacuation plan, but if the plan didn't include how to get me back home (and I couldn't afford to do it myself), I would be really worried about leaving. I can't imagine that I'm the only person who would have that thought process either.

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Originally posted by Dalaena

If I were in the position of some of these people who stayed, *I* probably would have stayed. It's all nice and good that people are wanting to evacuate me, but how the hell will I get back? If I had the means to get out in the first place (meaning that I had a car/transportation and some money), I wouldn't have to worry about coming back. If I didn't have the money or the means to get out (which are a lot of the people who stayed), I probably would be wondering how long I would be left to rot where ever they decided to evacuate me to before they would bring me back home. Are they even going to bring me back home?

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Finally! It is so refreshing to finally read a shared opinion. I had decided I was going to stop commenting on my feelings about the "before and after" evacuations because I seemed to be on an island by myself. Thank you for sharing my world! :biglove

It's hard to say for me. If I was down there with my child I would get out for safety and health reason. I mean a hurricane just came through and flooded the whole city and they are finding dead people now. Then they are worried about what they would find after they get the water out? Ick! I don't think I would want to be anywhere near a place that had bodily fluids flooding through everything.

People died, some were sick, who knows what else was wrong with people. I'd not think twice and get out just as long as I was safe. My property is no longer my property. It would lose that personal touch of what I've done to it and now be flooded as if the whole city was there and used it. And what I mean by used it is not in a pretty sense.

I think now I have to thank Threshold because of the research I do for my character has brought me to a greater realization of what happens when a body dies. Knowing what I do now... I'd be gone.

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I haven't read the full details of the evacuation plan, but if the plan didn't include how to get me back home (and I couldn't afford to do it myself), I would be really worried about leaving. I can't imagine that I'm the only person who would have that thought process either.

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I think I would worry about leaving to some extent but then I'd have to think. Okay if I stay how long are they going to take care of me and how long do I want to stay like this? We have no clue how long it will take for things to get back to a 'normal' life. I think I would try to move some where near the area that is not affected and try to get my life back in order. Then when things are cleared up then I would look to move back to where I was and where I was comfortable. I guess I have too many responsibilities in life that concern my son so he comes first and I would do whatever I have to do to make sure he is safe and he is taken care of.

I am getting pretty sick of the folks out there, on the news, etc. who seem to be defending the "nobility" of the people who stayed. For some reason, these "defenders" seem to think that admitting the locals have engaged in morally reprehensible behavior limits their ability to piss and moan and blame the whole thing on George Bush, Governor Blanco, Mayor Nagin, and Michael Chertoff. And of course, the most important thing is finding the right person to blame in order to score the most political points (and if it is possible to further sully the War in Iraq, all the better, right?).

For the purposes of this post, I am referring *ONLY* to people who COULD HAVE left but chose not to. I am specifically not talking about people who had no way to get out.

1) Staying was stupid.

2) Staying and looting anything other than food, water, and actually needed medicine (not drugs for recreational purposes) is utterly reprehensible

3) If you had to loot food, water, etc. because you stayed when you could have left, you are still engaging in an immoral act. Yes, it is theft out of necessity, but the only reason it is necessity is because you didn't leave when you could have. Note I am only calling that immoral, I am not calling it repugnant or disgusting or something that I think they should be prosecuted for. I do not think they should suffer criminal punishment for stealing food, water, and other necessities, but I definitely think they should feel real guilt about the immorality of their actions.

4) People shooting at police, medvac, helicopters, etc. should be killed.

I am also hearing some serious evidence of what happens when race pimps and class warfare warlords infect people with their utter BS.

I have seen numerous reporters talk about how when they speak to people who stayed, a very common reason they stayed was because "the poor folks felt the evacuation was ordered so the rich people could have the city all to themselves." How and why would a "class" of people want a city all to themselves? That doesn't even make sense and it wouldn't even work. The city would collapse.

That's just crazy. That is the kind of "Rich People are Evil" thinking that only exists because of the left's incessant class warfare lies.

Even if you look at the world in a 100% selfish, self-interested way, the rich people still wouldn't want poor folks to leave. Who would work at the jobs people need to even make the city a worthwhile or enjoyable place to live? To be a little bit flippant, who would pour the champagne and pump the gas?

Furthermore, since most rich people are just older poor and average people who worked hard for a few decades (look at US income mobility statistics if you don't believe me) it would require a massive epidemic of self-hate for "rich people" to want to do such a thing to "poor people."

I imagine a lot of poor folks really do think that way about "rich people." That's outrageous and it is a sad testament to the extremely detrimental effects of class warfare vote buying manipulation. And further, if you think rich people are evil, is it really a stretch to start looting any store or business in sight? It makes you understand how so many people excuse looting so easily. They've been told by politicians for decades that the rich are evil (even though, most politicians who say that, are rich themselves).

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Originally posted by Aristotle
And further, if you think rich people are evil, is it really a stretch to start looting any store or business in sight? It makes you understand how so many people excuse looting so easily.

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This sort of thing (or rich companies, perhaps, not individuals) has led many people to shoplifting. It's not something that happens only in a time of national disaster.

Before Katrina hit I wondered why there hadn’t been forced evacuations in LA and MI. Then Dal said something I found really interesting:

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If I were in the position of some of these people who stayed, *I* probably would have stayed. It's all nice and good that people are wanting to evacuate me, but how the hell will I get back? If I had the means to get out in the first place (meaning that I had a car/transportation and some money), I wouldn't have to worry about coming back. If I didn't have the money or the means to get out (which are a lot of the people who stayed), I probably would be wondering how long I would be left to rot where ever they decided to evacuate me to before they would bring me back home. Are they even going to bring me back home?

I haven't read the full details of the evacuation plan, but if the plan didn't include how to get me back home (and I couldn't afford to do it myself), I would be really worried about leaving. I can't imagine that I'm the only person who would have that thought process either.

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I think this is a very valid point. Sick and poor people don’t have a sense of security about their lives and are far more vulnerable to a change in circumstances than people who are fit or have enough money to see them through a crisis. Also, those who were rescued after the levies broke had to leave their pets behind. For many people this would be heartbreaking (the story about the little boy who got on a bus at the Super dome who cried so much that he vomited when he was forced to leave his dog behind was very sad). So to restate Dal’s point, I imagine a lot of people would be reluctant to leave their only possessions and their pets even if transport had been provided for them.

Clearly there needs to be a complete change in the way that populations deal with hurricanes in the Gulf states. People need to know who to contact to get transportation out of the city, they need to know evacuation points, but I think more importantly, they need to trust the authorities. I’m going to take a risk here and use the country that many experts believe serves as a model. Category 5 Hurricane Ivan hit Cuba in 2004 with no fatalities and Category 4 Hurricane Dennis hit Cuba this July with 16 fatalities. Over 1.5 million people were evacuated to higher ground in both cases.

The Cuban evacuation shelters are community based. Doctors from a given neighbourhood will stay with their community and thus know which people have specific needs. Veterinarians are evacuated with animals; whitegoods and tvs are also evacuated.

Do people think that such a model could be applied in the United States? It seems that Cuba gets hit with a lot more large hurricanes than any one state in the US, so it makes sense that they go to such extreme measures to set up a smooth running evacuation plan. Whereas if a danger occurs only infrequently such as a bush fire in Melbourne, there’s no political will, and not much need, to have an evacuation plan that covers all contingencies.

New Orleans sits somewhere between my two examples of hurricanes in Cuba and Bushfires in Melbourne in that the storms don’t happen as frequently as they do in Cuba but far more frequently than bushfires happen in Melbourne. The damage that a storm can do to NOLA is also far more serious because of its situation.

I’m not being rhetorical; I really am not sure whether the infrequency of catastrophic hurricanes in America is a valid argument against introducing a Cuban model evacuation plan. What do others think?

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Originally posted by Malacasta

I’m not being rhetorical; I really am not sure whether the infrequency of catastrophic hurricanes in America is a valid argument against introducing a Cuban model evacuation plan. What do others think?

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With catatrophic hurricanes happening SO infrequently in America (especially in NO), I think that it makes absolute sense to introduce something as extreme as the Cuban model evacuation plan. Evacuation plans are expensive WHEN they're carried out, and if it's that infrequent, then I see no problem for an extreme model if it will reduce 1) deaths, 2) anarchy, and 3) disease.

Whatever happens, I think it's been clearly demonstrated (regardless of whose fault it is) that New Orleans CANNOT use their current plan or their current levees. My greatest fear at the moment is that all of this, the truly important stuff, is going to be buried while the politicians make their moves.

I do not think it is feasible to have an evacuation plan where people are not allowed to bring ANY luxury items if it can be gathered up quickly and aren't gigantic. When you have so little or things you've worked really hard to get, your instinct is to stay and protect these items. We should keep in mind, as well, that some of these people are ANCIENT as well, and they don't have the education to fully grasp what happens in a catastrophic situation. It's easy to say, "I'd get out if I thought my life was in danger." It's a whole other thing to RECOGNIZE that your life is in danger. For example, how many people (including tourists) walked out to look at the bottom of the sea when the water receded? That's one of the reasons that SO many tourists as well as locals died. It's because education about what happens in a tsunami is VERY obscure. People simply had no way of knowing what would happen if they went out. They know now. I bet if any of us were on the beach and the water pulled back 100 yards, we'd be running for the hills.

No matter what contingency plan we put in, there will always be people who don't leave, but you need to put one in where you can get the most people to leave. For me, this means having a complete plan, which includes people coming back to their homes.

When I first started hearing about the hurricane, I got totally caught up in the news and what they wanted to report. I was upset about the looting. I was outraged about the delayed responses. I was boggling about the people who stayed. During a moment of outrage, I turned to Ari and said, "Why the hell would these people stay?" He pretty calmly turned to me and said, "Would you stay if you thought you'd never get to come back to your home, to everything you've worked to obtain in your life, to your heritage and legacy from your ancestors?" Of course, I started to argue that my life and the life of my child was more important than all that stuff, but then I realized that no matter where I went, I had enough to get back to where I had left. Some people don't have that, especially the elderly and infirm.

I'm still upset at the people who shot at the helicopters. The whole picture is just much larger than all of its little parts.