you like sarcasm? Terry Jones tadam!

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Remember that a lot of WMDs *were* found, just not as much as originally hoped. Also remember that it was discovered once in Iraq that Saddam's own scientists were lying to him about the status of their own weapons programs

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Could you please cite your sources for the existance of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons? I'm having trouble tracking down a recent source that backs that up.

However, it's been all over the news for the last two days that the ISG has completed its report, and to quote the Financial Times, the US team concludes Saddam had no WMD

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The Iraq Survey Group [ISG] issued its final report this week, saying its 1,700-member team had found no evidence that Iraq possessed biological, chemical or nuclear weapons.

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“As matters now stand, the WMD investigation has gone as far as feasible,” concluded Mr Duelfer in the report. “After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted.”

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I see you haven't followed the news much since high school world history. Well, please don't use these forums as your means of catching up. It ruins otherwise good discussions amongst people who DO follow the news.

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Although Turkey didn't help in the invasion, they are still your ally, check the last news at the Washington Post

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Turkeys OKs U.S. Request on Air Base Use

By SELCAN HACAOGLU
The Associated Press
Monday, April 25, 2005; 3:16 PM

ANKARA, Turkey -- After months of delay, Turkey's Cabinet on Monday approved a long-standing U.S. request to have increased access to a strategic air base for flying into Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0.html?sub=new
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The reasons why Turkey didn't help were legitimate: the possibility of a civil war for instance. The question is: how much should an ally bend overs? Turkey is part of NATO and perhaps the closest of the Arabic nations to the West. The perfect ally for a country that wants power on the Middle East region.

From your words, it seems the academic world is like a black hole for left wing people. Your argument to support this thought and therefore discredit a whole professionship and what they have to say about the current events is one name: Ward Churchill. Hmmmmm....

I believe the population of professors is not so different from others. Maybe you hear the left wing more because the right wing is happy with Bush nowadays.

Salimar

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Originally posted by Salimar

The reasons why Turkey didn't help were legitimate

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If they were so legitimate, then why would a bribe have been sufficient to change their minds? Good reasons do not cease to be good reasons just because you get a check. Give me a break.

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Originally posted by Salimar

From your words, it seems the academic world is like a black hole for left wing people. Your argument to support this thought and therefore discredit a whole professionship and what they have to say about the current events is one name: Ward Churchill. Hmmmmm....

I believe the population of professors is not so different from others. Maybe you hear the left wing more because the right wing is happy with Bush nowadays.

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No, that was one example. If you followed the news surrounding Ward Churchill, you would have experienced hundreds of others.

This has absolutely nothing to do with George Bush. The fact that you bring Bush into the discussion shows that your whole motivation here is pure, unadulterated, blind Bush hate. I am not a Bush booster. Twice I have voted for a different candidate than him. Is it so hard to stay on the actual issue without trying to turn it into Yet Another Bush Bash?

If you followed the news in general, you would know about things like the asinine, leftist lynching of Harvard's President for having the gall to express an opinion at a conference designed to share opinions about women in math and sciences.

If you followed the news, you would know about college professors and administrators all over the USA supporting the "Vagina Day" (a far left feminist revision of Valentines Day) practice of having women run around campus all day, bursting into classrooms (in session) and yelling "cunt" as some sort of feminist expression of solidarity.

On January 31st, Marquette University suspended an approved “Support our Troops” table set up to benefit Adopt a Sniper: an organization helping our troops in the Middle East. School officials confiscated signs and other materials they intended to use for the benefit.

Indian River Community College banned the showing of "The Passion of the Christ", but hosted a live performance called "Fucking for Jesus."

When a student raised his religious objections to a concept that was being discussed in a class discussion at UNC, Professor Crystall responded by sending the following email to all the students of the class:

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1. let me start off my (sic) saying that i apologize to all of you for not having made clear the first day of classes what i will make clear here and now: that i will not tolerate any racist, sexist, and/or heterosexist comments in my class. what we heard thursday at the end of class constitutes "hate speech" and is completely unacceptable. it has created a hostile environment. i am deeply sorry and apologize to those of us who are now feeling that the classroom we share is an unsafe environment, for those of us who feel vulnerable or threatened. i will do my best to counter those feelings and protect that space from further violence.

2. what we experienced, as unforuntate (sic) as it is, is, however, a perfect example of privilege. that a white, heterosexual, christian male, one who vehemently denied his privilege last week insisting that he earned all he has, can feel entitled to make violent, heterosexist comments and not feel marked or threatened or vulnerable is what privilege makes possible.

3. for those of you who want to respond to and discuss further thursday's class and the comments that tim made, or anything else about this class, about yourselves, about the world, i will open the discussion board/forum made available to us on blackboard. the ground rules are: no anonymous posts are allowed; folks will be unable to delete or edit their messages after they have been posted; NO HATE SPEECH will be tolerated.

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So if someone in this professor's class raises an opinion based on their religious beliefs, that is hate speech?

Also at UNC, Tristan Taormino gave a speech that was co-sponsored by the Office of Student Life and the UNCG Wellness Center. She is the author of "The Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women." Taormino is a porn star and director who refers to herself as "the poster girl for anal sex." North Carolina tax payers paid for this outrage all in the name of "diversity." I think it is well known that I am no prude, and yet I find misuse of state funds for such excessively leftist amoral diversity crap insane.

It is a well known fact that academia in at least the US is exceedingly leftist. It is amazing that I am having to provide you with examples. The above are just stories I personally remember reading in the last few weeks. If I had the time or interest to do real research into the matter, I could give you many more.

I am sure that no amount of examples or studies will be good enough for you, since they inconveniently destroy your foolish premise. But it must be cool and quiet there with one's head underground.

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If they were so legitimate, then why would a bribe have been sufficient to change their minds?

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I think there is a confussion here. The U.S. would pay for their help in Iraq, which is a common thing to do. All allies get some benefit from it. Let's put the example of Australia as one of your allies. They deploited around 2,000 troops at the beginning of the war, to a place that wasn't too dangerous. What did they get in return? A free trade agreement. Turkey was asked to deploit around 69,000 troops at first that went down to 10,000 (note how big of a petition when the U.K sent only 9,000). Do you expect Turkey to do it for free? maintain all these troops for free? hmm. Everybody gets something from helping an ally. This is a well known reality. I will appeal to your game designer side, I will take this opportunity to congratulate you for Threshold. I think it is vey well design and you work very hard maintaining it working all the time. What would you do if you design a game such as Civilisation? Allies, pay money to each other for protection. Wouldn't you include this feature?

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This has absolutely nothing to do with George Bush. The fact that you bring Bush into the discussion shows that your whole motivation here is pure, unadulterated, blind Bush hate.

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you are right, I should have said the Bush's administration or the government. My apologies. Just to let you know that I do not hate Bush more than you hate Ward Churchill.

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If you followed the news in general, you would know about things like the asinine, leftist lynching of Harvard's President for having the gall to express an opinion at a conference designed to share opinions about women in math and sciences.

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It is funny that you include this part because you do not know how directly it touches me. Lawrence Summers went to a conference of scientist and engineering women to tell them, "you are all outliers". One must admit that he has balls and they might have been itchy that very day that he needed to scratch them publically (metaphorically). If he truly believes this, you have a proof of how conservative the academic profession is. Although I think he only tried to stir some shit. All he got was an ear pull from the committee of the Faculty of Arts and Science. Do you notice how he is still in power?

Do some research, ask people involved in universities, women too, and I guarantee you, the academic profession is hostile to women. If I could I would ask Dr. Rice for her opinion actually. Why did she decide to get into politics instead of staying at the university? it is not uncommon for women to get so high in academia and leave because the environment.

Salimar

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If you followed the news in general, you would know about things like the asinine, leftist lynching of Harvard's President for having the gall to express an opinion at a conference designed to share opinions about women in math and sciences.

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If you followed the news in general, you would know about things like the asinine, rightist lynching of scientists who objected to the Harvard President's bad science at a conference attended by scientists.

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If you followed the news, you would know about college professors and administrators all over the USA supporting the "Vagina Day" (a far left feminist revision of Valentines Day) practice of having women run around campus all day, bursting into classrooms (in session) and yelling "cunt" as some sort of feminist expression of solidarity.

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Google News Searches:
- v-day professors: 0 results
- vagina professors: 7 results (1 relevant)
You will have to point out to me the news articles that state that college professors and administrators support the practice of women bursting into in session class rooms yelling "cunt". Perhaps you mean that some College Professors and administrators support V-Day (Vagina Day) which is a day of protests against violence against women.
I did find mention of these professors in an op-ed piece on Townhall.com (this was the relevant article mentioned above). The piece is not cited and even if the incident did occur, the professors are not interviewed so we have no idea what their thoughts on the matter are. I quote the relevant passage below:

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I could also talk about the Gonzaga feminists who ran in and out of classrooms shouting the word "c**t" on Vagina Day, which was previously known as Valentine's Day. They were greeted with amused laughter from professors who had their lectures interrupted by these profane displays of feminist hysteria.

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On January 31st, Marquette University suspended an approved “Support our Troops” table set up to benefit Adopt a Sniper: an organization helping our troops in the Middle East. School officials confiscated signs and other materials they intended to use for the benefit.

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Google News Searches:
- Marquette University snipers: 0 results
- Marquette University support our troops: 1 result (no relevance to the case in question)
It might have been helpful if you also had mentioned that Marquette University is a Catholic University (hardly a bastion of left wing thought) that objected to the use of certain placards the group was using that glorified violence.

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Indian River Community College banned the showing of "The Passion of the Christ", but hosted a live performance called "Fucking for Jesus."

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Google News Searches:
- Indian River "Passion of the Christ": 0 results
- "Fucking for Jesus": 0 results
Why are you not giving the school's rationale here? Indian River Community College objected to "The Passion of the Christ" because of its R rating (the school is a joint high school/college from what I understand) and not that the film was about Christ.

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When a student raised his religious objections to a concept that was being discussed in a class

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Google News Searches:
- professor crystall: 1 result
- crystall: 2 results (one relevant result)
- unc hate: 86 results (no relevant results on first page, though there is an article about a conservative professor on the campus, Mike Adams)
The student actually said that Homosexuality is disgusting. I agree with the findings that this woman should not have sent the email (and those were the findings when this was investigated) but you are mischaracterizing the case when you suggest that all he did was raise a religious objection.

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Also at UNC, Tristan Taormino gave a speech that was co-sponsored by the Office of Student Life and the UNCG Wellness Center. She is the author of "The Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women." Taormino is a porn star and director who refers to herself as "the poster girl for anal sex." North Carolina tax payers paid for this outrage all in the name of "diversity." I think it is well known that I am no prude, and yet I find misuse of state funds for such excessively leftist amoral diversity crap insane.

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Google News Searches:
- "Tristan Taormino": 5 results, 2 relevant - subscription
Note: A straight google search gave this article, which refutes that any tax payer funds were used. It also explains how Mike Adams (mentioned above) misrepresented both her and the purpose of the talk.

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It is a well known fact that academia in at least the US is exceedingly leftist. It is amazing that I am having to provide you with examples. The above are just stories I personally remember reading in the last few weeks. If I had the time or interest to do real research into the matter, I could give you many more.

I am sure that no amount of examples or studies will be good enough for you, since they inconveniently destroy your foolish premise. But it must be cool and quiet there with one's head underground.

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The examples that you provide do not appear with any frequency in Google News searches. To suggest that someone is ill read because they didn't find these articles as part of their daily news reading is absurd. Because you misrepresented the one example you gave that I do know something about (the Harvard President's talk on women and science), I was curious enough to spend a morning reading blogs and op-eds from conservative web sites to track down the other stories. There's nothing wrong with using these websites to get your information (I read left wing websites every day), but you make a big effort to portray Salimar as ignorant because she doesn’t.

There might well be a liberal or left wing bent in academia, but the examples you provide here don't make that case very well.

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Originally posted by Salimar

you are right, I should have said the Bush's administration or the government. My apologies. Just to let you know that I do not hate Bush more than you hate Ward Churchill.

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Ward Churchill was actually applicable to the discussion. George Bush wasn't.

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Originally posted by Salimar

It is funny that you include this part because you do not know how directly it touches me. Lawrence Summers went to a conference of scientist and engineering women to tell them, "you are all outliers".

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No he didn't.

Truly, at this point, I really do not see any reason to continue this (or perhaps any) discussion with you. You don't read the news. You don't keep up with current events. You drag in completely unrelated issues just because you want to bash on unrelated politicians you don't like. Frankly, you have behaved completely irrationally and this does not make for a valuable discussion.

This has nothing to do with your opinions. There are plenty of other people who agree with you politically that I will happily continue to discuss things with.

There are just some people who really cannot be trusted to hold up their end of the discussion.

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Originally posted by Malacasta

The examples that you provide do not appear with any frequency in Google News searches.

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That is neither my fault nor my responsibility.

If you want to accuse me of lying or inventing the stories, go right ahead.

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Originally posted by Malacasta

To suggest that someone is ill read because they didn't find these articles as part of their daily news reading is absurd.

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I never said someone was ill read for not knowing those specific examples. But anyone who does not already *KNOW* that American higher education is utterly dominated by the left is completely clueless and quite frankly cannot be taken seriously.

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Originally posted by Malacasta

Because you misrepresented the one
There might well be a liberal or left wing bent in academia, but the examples you provide here don't make that case very well.

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They make the case perfectly well. You don't like them precisely because they are so incredibly damning, and you sought to discredit them with your (sarcasm) extensive research (/sarcasm) via a search engine.

Perhaps if you lived in the United States, or participated in higher education in the United States, you would have first hand experience with the fact that our education system (from top to bottom) is utterly dominated by the left. Any assertion to the contrary is foolishness.

Furthermore, I did not misrepresent anything, Malacasta, and you lower yourself by making such an outlandish, base accusation.

Google search: "vagina day"

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,820 for "vagina day. (0.36 seconds)

Try at least conducting a relevant search query.

Salimar wrote:

Do some research, ask people involved in universities, women too, and I guarantee you, the academic profession is hostile to women. If I could I would ask Dr. Rice for her opinion actually. Why did she decide to get into politics instead of staying at the university? it is not uncommon for women to get so high in academia and leave because the environment.


Dr. Rice was in public service BEFORE she became a professor and then university administrator, which she then left again for the public arena. Your question begs that she left academics because of some hostility to women and ignores that she has long been involved in politics.

Of course, considering that she was out of politics during the Clinton era, perhaps his administration could be considered hostile to women (or at least non-intern women) using your logic.

Zimri,

The purpose of the searches I made, was to look for news articles that referenced academic support for women running into classrooms yelling "cunt". A straight google search on "Vagina Day" doesn't tell me anything about that.

The reason I was looking for news articles about that subject was because of the following comment (bolding is my emphasis): If you followed the news, you would know about college professors and administrators all over the USA supporting the "Vagina Day".

It is not overloading a search to carry out a google news search for vagina professors when a claim has been made that if I follow the news, I would know that professors support vagina day.

It should be clear in my previous post that I did do straight google searches for the examples given. The reason it should be clear, is because I give brief explanations for why I think the examples are flawed, and actually state in one of my examples that a straight google search gave me an article that contradicted the claim that tax payers funds were used to fund Tristan Taormino’s visit to UNC.